US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Pol Pot? Hello.

LMAO!

 

[Metroyet]

I won't encourage you to accept the results of votes.

Do you REALY Think the courts and the West legal team are THAT stupid? You think hiding behind this absurd guise of "democracy" you're bullet proof? The C&BL have already been proven to be illegal once...you think your simple vote is going to change that?

 

[fatherabraham]

Do you REALY Think the courts and the West legal team are THAT stupid? You think hiding behind this absurd guise of "democracy" you're bullet proof? The C&BL have already been proven to be illegal once...you think your simple vote is going to change that?

All west folk,

Many many replies here suggest in the future the majority will be comprised mostly of 3rd listers, alpa loyalist and westies.
If that comes to fruition, then will it be safe to assume likely 3 groups will say " hey, majority rules " ?
Will not the same above argument then be valid for East?
Yes or no answers will suffice!

FA

 

[nevergiveup]

Yes usapa is unethical because of the way you are trying to impose DOH. The other mergers went through the process an arbitrator looked at the facts and developed as list. In usapa's case an arbitrator developed a list and the east pilots rejected it. Using the force of the majority is trying to impose a DOH list on a smaller group.

Stapling the west to the bottom would be unethical. DOH works. Merging the entire list by age might be the most correct way to do it, but it will never happen. That would allow every pilot to reach the top of the list and maximize his or her income.

 

[cactusboy53]

All west folk,

Many many replies here suggest in the future the majority will be comprised mostly of 3rd listers, alpa loyalist and westies.
If that comes to fruition, then will it be safe to assume likely 3 groups will say " hey, majority rules " ?
Will not the same above argument then be valid for East?
Yes or no answers will suffice!

FA

I think the absolute test of a man/woman or a group: Can they be held to their word?

Numbers 30:2 - If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

Or is it OK & do you stand on moral ground to back out on your word if one group is bigger than the other?

What do you say PapaAbe? (Ooops. There goes that answering a question with a question thing again...)

 

[CallawayGolf]

All west folk,

Many many replies here suggest in the future the majority will be comprised mostly of 3rd listers, alpa loyalist and westies.
If that comes to fruition, then will it be safe to assume likely 3 groups will say " hey, majority rules " ?
Will not the same above argument then be valid for East?
Yes or no answers will suffice!

FA

The concept of "majority rules" only applies in a certain and very limited number of scenarios. The majority of American voters can vote for a candidate for President but that person will only become President if the votes cast in the Electoral College are more than any other candidate. The EC's of 1876, 1888 and 2000 returned a different President than what the majority of voters expressed in the popular vote.

The majority cannot vote to make Bill Gates' house and bank accounts up for grabs just because they want what he has.

The majority cannot vote to rid the nation of people of a certain race, religion, gender or other arbitrary criterion just because they will it to be so.

The will of the majority is always subject to the rule of law. 536 elected politicians and 9 justices in black robes decide every federal issue in this country, not the 120 million or so voters who occasionally get a change to express their viewpoints at the ballot box.

USAPA hasn't been able to get away with re-writing the NIC seniority list and the rule of law will almost certainly prevent them from ever doing so, now or 20 years from now when most of the current crop of narcissists have turned in their wings.

 

[Phoenix]

I tell someone I won't encourage them to accept the results of votes and several others come unglued.

I'm afraid to ask how's the weather where you are.

 

[luvn737s]

The worst thing that could happen for the Company is for Silver to go off the reservation and tell them they have to use NIC. Only in that case do they now become passengers, having to wait years for our trip to the Ninth.

Why would they wait? They would say Nic is the list, dangle Kirby plus a significant signing bonus that was a very limited time offer, wait for the bloody mutiny at USAPA to subside, then wait for the vote that passes by 70% or more. USAPA will be replaced and no one will finance any appeals or injunctions against implementing the NIC.

There's no more delay Super Hero. Game Over.

 

[Phoenix]

Why would they wait? They would say Nic is the list, dangle Kirby plus a significant signing bonus that was a very limited time offer, wait for the bloody mutiny at USAPA to subside, then wait for the vote that passes by 70% or more. USAPA will be replaced and no one will finance any appeals or injunctions against implementing the NIC.

There's no more delay Super Hero. Game Over.

Since you have been to the end of the rainbow, can you tell us how many coins are in the pot?

 

[nevergiveup]

I think the absolute test of a man/woman or a group: Can they be held to their word?

Numbers 30:2 - If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

Or is it OK & do you stand on moral ground to back out on your word if one group is bigger than the other?

What do you say PapaAbe? (Ooops. There goes that answering a question with a question thing again...)

If someone swears an oath...agreed.

 

[767one]

Why would they wait? They would say Nic is the list, dangle Kirby plus a significant signing bonus that was a very limited time offer, wait for the bloody mutiny at USAPA to subside, then wait for the vote that passes by 70% or more. USAPA will be replaced and no one will finance any appeals or injunctions against implementing the NIC.

There's no more delay Super Hero. Game Over.

Usapa will be replaced by what? I doubt that alpo could get 50%. What is your alternative?

 

[fatherabraham]

I think the absolute test of a man/woman or a group: Can they be held to their word?

Numbers 30:2 - If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

Or is it OK & do you stand on moral ground to back out on your word if one group is bigger than the other?

What do you say PapaAbe? (Ooops. There goes that answering a question with a question thing again...)

CB,
Stop and consider HIS will before you attempt to use HIS words in your defense. Do you really think anything positive can come from Christian brothers debating with His sacred words ? Your ever prolific nonbeliever would have a field day!

FA

 

[767one]

ALPA has DFR Insurance. USAPA has none. In fact, except for ALPA, no US union has any. ALPA has a wholly owned insurance entity which is underwritten by a Lloyd’s syndicate to protect the union in the event of an adverse DFR decision. If USAPA must face a financial DFR decision or settlement it will likely face bankruptcy or at least a significant assessment of the membership. Additionally, while represented by ALPA, just like the MCF, pilots paid for this protection and now US Airways' pilots enjoy none of its protections.

I would guess that is why alpo doesn't find the need for a definitive merger policy also. They are covered by the policy so they stand back and watch the proceedings unfold without consequence. I think the company also bought them a policy to protect them when they gave away the pension. They didn't need cojones they had insurance.

 

[767one]

Nonsense. The DJ is there to put closure on the use of Nic. The company was hoping the 9th would do it. Failing that, they took it into their own hands by filing the DJ. With it they'll have the legal cover to use the Nic and prevent you easties from being release over S22.

Delay has nothing to do with it. As you can see, S22 isn't holding up anything now do you argument is asinine.

With the DJ and injunction, USAPA's quest for DOH or compromise is dead and buried with no chance of ever seeing the light of a negotiating table.

Looks like LOA93 for you guys for a long time.

Not really. For me it is 11 months and 4 days. I can do that standing on my head in a swimming pool.

 

[cleardirect]

I would guess that is why alpo doesn't find the need for a definitive merger policy also. They are covered by the policy so they stand back and watch the proceedings unfold without consequence. I think the company also bought them a policy to protect them when they gave away the pension. They didn't need cojones they had insurance.

If as you say ALPA does not have a difinitive merger policy. Could you explain the difference between ALPA merger policy and A/M merger policy?

Is A/M merger policy a definitive merger policy?