US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

Who are they? Mike Cleary, Randy Mowery?

How did you know?

 

[cleardirect]

How did you know?

Because putting them in makes about as much sense as anything else management has done so far.

So who are the new hatchet men?

 

[jetjok1]

While I agree in principle with your position, consider mine. Ask around about a certain east commuter from SFO, who has reportedly ridden on west jumpseats, only to report west pilots for alleged violations of SOPs. As a pilot "working without a net" i.e. union protection for the last several years, do you really expect all west pilots to be willing to expose themselves to that risk? I appreciate the vagaries of commuting, however, it's CYA out there.

I would like to know who that was........I would have a conversation with him. Hopefully, your not blowing smoke. I commute out of there and I can think of no one who fits that profile

 

[Move2CLT]

. Web boards have a way of turning minor issues into major events.

Sounds like a union I'm stuck with.

 

[cactusboy53]

Okay CB, I've seen enough. This does it for me:

"ReformUSAPA.com will recognize Candidates that agree to represent all pilots equally. This includes but is not limited to accepting the Unmodified Arbitrated Nicolau Seniority Award, the immediate addition of three West pilots chosen by the West pilot Representatives to join the Negotiating Advisory Committee, and the need to modify the USAPA Constitution and Union Operating Manual to more equally represent and move this pilot group forward."

Will recognize(just recognize)candidates that accept the UNMODIFIED Arbitrated Nicolau Award. That's the real reason for reformUSPA. That's fine if you think you need another defense of the award, but don't try to pass if off as something else.

BTW, the letter from T.V. is about a year old. Is he still associated with your group?

The reform USAPA duo is (if you look in the "About US" tab @ www.reformusapa.com) is Ken Holmes and Mark Burman. Ken and Mark are both involved with Leonidas (as viewed @ www.cactuspilot.com). No secrets. Unlike USAPA, we are actually truthful and transparent in our communications with anyone that wishes to listen. Tory Vaughn (while not affiliated with reformUSAPA) supports the structured legal change of USAPA, so as to make it more democratic. You perhaps look to see a newer letter soon.

Many east pilots are now realizing that USAPA has done nothing but delay the inevitable seniority conclusion that is the Nicolau Seniority Arbitration. USAPA has failed legally time and time again. The only gain they have achieved is to get the Ninth in SFO to punt the ball down the field. The only other result that USAPA has achieved is the continued loss of time off, wages and contract improvements that could have been realized as early as four years ago (NEVER to be recovered).

Again Pi, EVEN IF YOU DISAGREE with the change of the seniority list, the other two petitions are merely common sense & logically correct.

Regarding CLT visits, I am off right now. I return to the school house briefly in the beginning of February. I should be flying the line in March sometime. Looking forward to some CLT BBQ in the Spring of 2012.

Regards,
CB

 

[luvn737s]

The reform USAPA duo is (if you look in the "About US" tab @ www.reformusapa.com) is Ken Holmes and Mark Burman.

I remember Mowery, on the stand before Judge Wake saying the Mark Burman was the only west pilot he consulted when writing up the DOH Conditions and Restrictions for USAPA. One pilot consulted for a document that would profoundly affect 1800.

 

[cactusboy53]

I remember Mowery, on the stand before Judge Wake saying the Mark Burman was the only west pilot he consulted when writing up the DOH Conditions and Restrictions for USAPA. One pilot consulted for a document that would profoundly affect 1800.

You might be thinking of Mark Burdick. Burdick was the PHX pilot that was on the USAPA NAC (junior member, of course). I believe that when USAPA fired up, Burdick asked Bradford and the newly formed NAC...."How about we go to the company ang get them to sign off on all the closed (27 of a 30 some??) sections that were done under ALPA JNC?"

I believe the general response after the USAPA "victory" in May 2008 was something like...."NO WAY! We're gonna do it the USAPA way, and we'll have a contract to vote on in 90 days!!" (this crap would be funny, if it wasn't happening to us!).

 

[Pi brat]

Congrats to the new PHX reps and thanks for taking the time to serve. A couple of those names sound familiar. ;-) Thanks to the outgoing reps for your time.

 

[Pi brat]

The reform USAPA duo is (if you look in the "About US" tab @ www.reformusapa.com) is Ken Holmes and Mark Burman. Ken and Mark are both involved with Leonidas (as viewed @ www.cactuspilot.com). No secrets. Unlike USAPA, we are actually truthful and transparent in our communications with anyone that wishes to listen. Tory Vaughn (while not affiliated with reformUSAPA) supports the structured legal change of USAPA, so as to make it more democratic. You perhaps look to see a newer letter soon.

Many east pilots are now realizing that USAPA has done nothing but delay the inevitable seniority conclusion that is the Nicolau Seniority Arbitration. USAPA has failed legally time and time again. The only gain they have achieved is to get the Ninth in SFO to punt the ball down the field. The only other result that USAPA has achieved is the continued loss of time off, wages and contract improvements that could have been realized as early as four years ago (NEVER to be recovered).

Again Pi, EVEN IF YOU DISAGREE with the change of the seniority list, the other two petitions are merely common sense & logically correct.

Regarding CLT visits, I am off right now. I return to the school house briefly in the beginning of February. I should be flying the line in March sometime. Looking forward to some CLT BBQ in the Spring of 2012.

Regards,
CB

I guess it's a trust thing.

I don't have any problems with the amendments. I don't think the DOH mandate should have ever been in there. But, why does a candidate have to pledge allegiance to an unmodified Nic? What does that mean? To some it means way more than others, such as no change to other sections of the contract that may have some distant tie to seniority. Why tie your hands on that anymore than the DOH mandate from USAPA does.

Let me know when you will be in town if you want to meet.

 

[Metroyet]

I don't think the DOH mandate should have ever been in there. But, why does a candidate have to pledge allegiance to an unmodified Nic? What does that mean? To some it means way more than others, such as no change to other sections of the contract that may have some distant tie to seniority. Why tie your hands on that anymore than the DOH mandate from USAPA does.

What does that mean? It means they fully understand their legal obligations, that failing to uphold said obligation is just simply going down the same old USAPA road that has ALREADY cost the pilot group over a BILLION dollars in lost pay. Why don't you understand that it's the LAW OF THE LAND that is "tying your hands" and not the West Pilots, or the Company. You know in your gut that what USAPA has done is immoral and Illegal. Listen to your gut. It's time to move the F on.

 

[USA320Pilot]

UniteUSAPA.com Update: January 17, 2012

Click here to read the story.

 

[USA320Pilot]

UniteUSAPA.com Update: January 17, 2012

Click here to read the story.

I wholeheartedly endorse Andy Reitz for USAPA president I encourage pilots to forward his message/website information to other pilots to help Andy win the upcoming election. Andy is the only candidate I know of who does not have previous baggage that can unite the pilot group and deal with the Preliminary Injunction problem, pending NMB assisted negotiations being parked, political history, and obtaining a joint contract.

 

[mrbreeze]

I guess it's a trust thing.

I don't have any problems with the amendments. I don't think the DOH mandate should have ever been in there. But, why does a candidate have to pledge allegiance to an unmodified Nic? What does that mean? To some it means way more than others, such as no change to other sections of the contract that may have some distant tie to seniority. Why tie your hands on that anymore than the DOH mandate from USAPA does.

Let me know when you will be in town if you want to meet.

Pi,

I agree that DOH should not have been a mandate, I have always thought that it leaves no flexibility. Now, to see that the new mandate would mandate the unmodified NIC, we are right back where we are today. It's just swinging from one end of the spectrum to the other.....too many East pilots will not accept that kind of mandate.

breeze

 

[Move2CLT]

Pi,

I agree that DOH should not have been a mandate, I have always thought that it leaves no flexibility. Now, to see that the new mandate would mandate the unmodified NIC, we are right back where we are today. It's just swinging from one end of the spectrum to the other.....too many East pilots will not accept that kind of mandate.

breeze

But many will accept it with a raise and new work rules.

 

[mrbreeze]

But many will accept it with a raise and new work rules.

Possibly, but I still think it shouldn't be mandated....use other avenues to work it in, if that is where we are headed.