US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Piedmont1984]

Nominations for union officers have been posted (and here I thought the Republican field was too large to begin with).

So, is it preferable to have a team of four which is compatible and pulls in the same direction, or one with built in checks and balances? A team which wants to carry on the DOH fight, or one willing to consider alternatives, or one ready to capitulate on the NIC and move on?

How many east posters here now feel that although Nicolau got it wrong, it is time for an exit strategy with regard to the seniority dispute/litigation (does Vietnam ring a bell)?

Kinda like the injunction.........or the RICO.

We're broke boys, collectively and in many cases (thanks to LOA93), individually.

I'm just askin here.

 

[Res Judicata]

Nominations for union officers have been posted (and here I thought the Republican field was too large to begin with).

So, is it preferable to have a team of four which is compatible and pulls in the same direction, or one with built in checks and balances? A team which wants to carry on the DOH fight, or one willing to consider alternatives, or one ready to capitulate on the NIC and move on?

How many east posters here now feel that although Nicolau got it wrong, it is time for an exit strategy with regard to the seniority dispute/litigation (does Vietnam ring a bell)?

Kinda like the injunction.........or the RICO.

We're broke boys, collectively and in many cases (thanks to LOA93), individually.

I'm just askin here.

INCOMING!!!!!!!!!

 

[prechilill]

Nominations for union officers have been posted (and here I thought the Republican field was too large to begin with).

So, is it preferable to have a team of four which is compatible and pulls in the same direction, or one with built in checks and balances? A team which wants to carry on the DOH fight, or one willing to consider alternatives, or one ready to capitulate on the NIC and move on?

How many east posters here now feel that although Nicolau got it wrong, it is time for an exit strategy with regard to the seniority dispute/litigation (does Vietnam ring a bell)?

Kinda like the injunction.........or the RICO.

We're broke boys, collectively and in many cases (thanks to LOA93), individually.

I'm just askin here.

That ball has always been in your court, I assume then your question is only for your east counterparts.

 

[luvn737s]

What's your point 9-piece.

Are you planning on starting up a whistleblower campaign?

You shouldn't try to blow a whistle with your mouth full. Messy.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Nominations for union officers have been posted (and here I thought the Republican field was too large to begin with).

So, is it preferable to have a team of four which is compatible and pulls in the same direction, or one with built in checks and balances? A team which wants to carry on the DOH fight, or one willing to consider alternatives, or one ready to capitulate on the NIC and move on?

How many east posters here now feel that although Nicolau got it wrong, it is time for an exit strategy with regard to the seniority dispute/litigation (does Vietnam ring a bell)?

Kinda like the injunction.........or the RICO.

We're broke boys, collectively and in many cases (thanks to LOA93), individually.

I'm just askin here.

You still aren't understanding or recognizing the legal reality Piedmont. There is no West that can "capitulate." That's exactly why the company's declaratory action is couched in Nic vs. Non-Nic terms. It's not a stamina contest between Nic and DOH. That ceased in April of 2008 when USAPA folded everything into one entity. The unintended consequence is what we have today. Talking about a "compromise" is now no different than talking about changing say, Game 6 of the 1986 World Series. Any possibility of maneuvering (and binding the entire pilot group) to a solution was eliminated once the West ceased to exist.

 

[cleardirect]

Nominations for union officers have been posted (and here I thought the Republican field was too large to begin with).

So, is it preferable to have a team of four which is compatible and pulls in the same direction, or one with built in checks and balances? A team which wants to carry on the DOH fight, or one willing to consider alternatives, or one ready to capitulate on the NIC and move on?

How many east posters here now feel that although Nicolau got it wrong, it is time for an exit strategy with regard to the seniority dispute/litigation (does Vietnam ring a bell)?

Kinda like the injunction.........or the RICO.

We're broke boys, collectively and in many cases (thanks to LOA93), individually.

I'm just askin here.

A team of four? Who is in control of this union? The pilots or the officers? I thought that the pilots and the BPR determined the direction of this union not the officers. Are we back to ALPA and national officers dictating what they want to do?

A team that wants to carry on the DOH fight? This is going to be an interesting election to see the direction a MAJORITY of pilots want to go. So far the only vote was 4 years ago on the C&BL for a DOH objective. After 4 years and no progress are a majority of pilots ready to accept the Nicolau and move on or are we going to be held hostage to a dictator president and 3 other "team" members that are determining our future for us.

 

[Piedmont1984]

You still aren't understanding or recognizing the legal reality Piedmont. There is no West that can "capitulate." That's exactly why the company's declaratory action is couched in Nic vs. Non-Nic terms. It's not a stamina contest between Nic and DOH. That ceased in April of 2008 when USAPA folded everything into one entity. The unintended consequence is what we have today. Talking about a "compromise" is now no different than talking about changing say, Game 6 of the 1986 World Series. Any possibility of maneuvering (and binding the entire pilot group) to a solution was eliminated once the West ceased to exist.

You didn't understand my post. I suppose it wasn't clear. When I said capitulate on the NIC, I meant capitulate and accept the NIC.

Even at this late stage, it's still within the realm of possibility that a leadership team which is fully commited to pursuing DOH at all costs could be installed.

 

[N924PS]

Even at this late stage, it's still within the realm of possibility that a leadership team which is fully commited to pursuing DOH at all costs could be installed.

After perusing the laundry list of candidates, and seeing the "usual suspects" names, I believe this is exactly what will happen.

Unless something happens with the Declaratory Judgement that makes it clear that DOH will never happen, the majority of East pilots will continue the same failed strategies and vote in the same old "Roll Call 4" minded reps.

So tighten your belt for a few more years, as any raises or improvements to our collective betterment will not be realized.

 

[aquagreen73s]

You didn't understand my post. I suppose it wasn't clear. When I said capitulate on the NIC, I meant capitulate and accept the NIC.

Even at this late stage, it's still within the realm of possibility that a leadership team which is fully commited to pursuing DOH at all costs could be installed.

Ok. I read it the other way because it seemed like the context of the post was compromise, which as applied to the West means come off the Nic. If there was a way to avert this mess, then I'd be all for it. The problem is that the founders of USAPA rigged our situation so seniority would become an all-or-nothing proposition. I don't think they had the foresight to see the long term, negative effects on the pilot group as a whole and even if they did, they wouldn't have cared. Rather, they saw it as nothing more than a necessary step to achieving the DOH cram-down. USAPA was only created for the purpose of benefitting one particular subgroup of Airways pilots at the expense of the West, East captains and 3rd listers. Nobody has been more dishonest in all of this than the founders of USAPA. They created a lynch-mob mentality that simply had no legal grounding. Hence, failure has been the result and frustration continued to creep. Nothing was working as was promised and the outlet was the illegal safety slow-down. Ironically, the permanent injunction is another layer of cement sealing DOH's fate every bit as much as Addington. If the company had little incentive to expose themselves to the risk of a hybrid DFR after Addington, they have absolutely no reason to align with DOH now given that LOA93 is written in stone, the 3% raise is dead (and should have been a victory for the East), and of course, a permanent injunction. Game, set, match. We either get a contract now or it'll be several more years if there is another merger. The Nicolau will be the list going forward, merger or no merger. That's the reality.

 

[Move2CLT]

Nominations for union officers have been posted (and here I thought the Republican field was too large to begin with).

So, is it preferable to have a team of four which is compatible and pulls in the same direction, or one with built in checks and balances? A team which wants to carry on the DOH fight, or one willing to consider alternatives, or one ready to capitulate on the NIC and move on?

How many east posters here now feel that although Nicolau got it wrong, it is time for an exit strategy with regard to the seniority dispute/litigation (does Vietnam ring a bell)?

Kinda like the injunction.........or the RICO.

We're broke boys, collectively and in many cases (thanks to LOA93), individually.

I'm just askin here.

Have you started canvassing the line out east? Those I've spoken to out east have had enough and are ready to move on.

 

[aquagreen73s]

After perusing the laundry list of candidates, and seeing the "usual suspects" names, I believe this is exactly what will happen.

Unless something happens with the Declaratory Judgement that makes it clear that DOH will never happen, the majority of East pilots will continue the same failed strategies and vote in the same old "Roll Call 4" minded reps.

So tighten your belt for a few more years, as any raises or improvements to our collective betterment will not be realized.

I don't think the numbers support your pessimism PS. The numbers to keep the "RC4" boxed in are there unless a lot of Airways pilots just don't vote. The West is a huge voting block. The 3rd listers are a growing voting block. It won't take many legacy East to box the RC4 in, but we'll see.

 

[Move2CLT]

I do believe the mayor was directing this toward the PHL pilots.


http://blogs.phillymag.com/the_philly_post/2012/01/12/mayor-nutter-stop-idiots-assholes/

 

[cactusboy53]

The Nicolau was a winning lottery ticket. Even my neighbor who is a federal judge says that........

Dude!
That one was SO FUNNY, that I had to share it with my Western brothers & sisters! Here are some replies:

An angry FO that lives next to a federal judge? He must have married well.

Given the liberties some of these guys take with facts, my guess is that his neighbor isn't a federal judge. Probably more like a supervisor at the post office.

 

[Move2CLT]

Dude!
That one was SO FUNNY, that I had to share it with my Western brothers & sisters! Here are some replies:

An angry FO that lives next to a federal judge? He must have married well.

Given the liberties some of these guys take with facts, my guess is that his neighbor isn't a federal judge. Probably more like a supervisor at the post office.

You forget that every single east pilot has a highly successful side business and really doesn't need the flying job.

 

[luvn737s]

I don't think the numbers support your pessimism PS. The numbers to keep the "RC4" boxed in are there unless a lot of Airways pilots just don't vote. The West is a huge voting block. The 3rd listers are a growing voting block. It won't take many legacy East to box the RC4 in, but we'll see.

Yes, but there are still those who spout the nonsense about keeping Cleary in place to ward off sanity. It's time to stop with the reverse psychology and begin applying real pressure to affect real change.

Or simply continue to be held hostage while waiting for the judge to rule unequivocably in favor of the west. Some folks want to make sure they are vindicated for their efforts, even if that means delaying or denying the gains they were fighting for.