US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CallawayGolf]

So if it your opinion that if the SLI did not violate the tenants of the TA, then it is illegal to use anything else? Or will she be deciding if USAPA has a legitimate union objective in changing the Nic?

So long as the SLI was validly submitted per the terms of the TA, then IMO any other list would require an amendment to the TA per the terms contained therein. No party to the TA is obligated to amend the TA, but if all partied agree then, yes, it could be modified to include a different list. Given the situation created by USAPA, that is not at all likely or perhaps possible now.

 

[traderjake]

I think most people accept that the TA is legally a collective bargaining agreement under the RLA. The question is can it be changed?

The CBA can be changed but there are limitations.

Barton Brands holds that a union may not juggle the seniority roster for no reason other than to advance one group of employees over another. The change must rationally promote the aggregate welfare of employees in the bargaining unit. 529 F.2d at 800.

 

[Pi brat]

Sad that AA management's term sheet for its pilots is still beats LOA 93.

What is really sad is that, if I'm looking at the right thing, it beats the Kirby. At least LOA 93 was negotiated almost 8 years ago when the doors were threatening to be closed.

But hey, you're okay with the Kirby, right? A 10-15% bump in relative positions makes it a little easier to swallow.

 

[Move2CLT]

What is really sad is that, if I'm looking at the right thing, it beats the Kirby. At least LOA 93 was negotiated almost 8 years ago when the doors were threatening to be closed.

But hey, you're okay with the Kirby, right? A 10-15% bump in relative positions makes it a little easier to swallow.

Who said I was good with Kirby?

I'd like more but the problem is that I don't trust USAPA to be able to get it. They like giving up more than getting more.

 

[traderjake]

Fellow US Airways Pilots,

My name is Captain Bill McKee. I am running for President of USAPA and respectfully request your vote.

Already there is a great deal of rhetoric out on the line about this election. The truth is that this is not all that complicated. This election is about competence, experience, and who deserves your confidence. I will explain to you over the next few days why I deserve your respect in these areas. It is my sincere belief and hope that you will choose to install a competent team to work on your behalf.

As one of the precertification domicile reps, I certainly qualify as a “founder”. Many others may claim that title, but few of us have persevered and have deserved that recognition for the long haul. The only point here is that we, as a pilot group, genuinely remain vigilant to our original principles. We can think more later about who has succeeded and failed in this area, but for now I want you to understand that few are as qualified to understand and reflect on what we began and where we are now.

We all know where we need to go – to a unified place, in cooperation with our fellow pilots, our fellow employees and management. I see that path to success; I know how to make it happen within the appropriate bounds of our Constitution and By Laws.

There are long standing and immediate adversaries on our horizon. Our adversaries are organized and awaiting our apathy. We must all Vote! We cannot afford to be apathetic or to waiver. Vote!

I make this commitment to you:
To uphold, without waiver, our Constitutional objectives
To work with all pilots to develop a cross section of ideas and opinion to produce consensus
To unwaveringly defend all US Airways pilots rights in an inclusive and aggressive manner

I will be communicating with you frequently over the next few days and respectfully request your attention to the important decisions that are in all our futures.

Thank you for time and for your attention,

Captain Bill McKee
(704) 975-4009


"We are absolutely in a position to succeed, our framework is in place, and we need leadership that will capitalize on the foundation that you have built."

 

[Move2CLT]

Fellow US Airways Pilots,

There are long standing and immediate adversaries on our horizon. Our adversaries are organized and awaiting our apathy. We must all Vote! We cannot afford to be apathetic or to waiver. Vote!

Captain Bill McKee
(704) 975-4009


"We are absolutely in a position to succeed, our framework is in place, and we need leadership that will capitalize on the foundation that you have built."

Ya, lots of change coming from the east. <_<

 

[BoeingBoy]

The question is can it be changed?

Callaway answered that. Sure it can be changed if ALL parties that agreed to it in the first place decide that they want a change made. But note the title to the TA, where it says "the pilots in the service of" US & HP. Do you really think that the west pilots will agree to change the TA and eliminate the requirement to use the Nic, even if they had a separate bargaining representative?

USAPA can try to get the company to agree to change the TA...oh, that's right...they did by insisting on a DOH list and that's what led to the DJ filing isn't it...

The problem USAPA (and the east pilots in general) have always had is that a change in the TA that allows a DOH list is taking from one group for the sole purpose of giving to another - a clear DFR violation, which the company wants no part of.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

So long as the SLI was validly submitted per the terms of the TA, then IMO any other list would require an amendment to the TA per the terms contained therein. No party to the TA is obligated to amend the TA, but if all partied agree then, yes, it could be modified to include a different list. Given the situation created by USAPA, that is not at all likely or perhaps possible now.

The thing is, all groups are still there. It's just instead of being represented by ALPA, you are represented by USAPA(I know you guys disagree, but legally you are). Even if you were represented by ALPA, you wouldn't necessarily be making individual decisions, your union would. Same here. So, USAPA has the same rights AND responsibilities.

If it is POSSIBLE to change the SL at all, it seems it is up to the union and if they don't do it right then DFR II would be where it would be settled.

 

[Pi brat]

Callaway answered that. Sure it can be changed if ALL parties that agreed to it in the first place decide that they want a change made. But note the title to the TA, where it says "the pilots in the service of" US & HP. Do you really think that the west pilots will agree to change the TA and eliminate the requirement to use the Nic, even if they had a separate bargaining representative?

USAPA can try to get the company to agree to change the TA...oh, that's right...they did by insisting on a DOH list and that's what led to the DJ filing isn't it...

The problem USAPA (and the east pilots in general) have always had is that a change in the TA that allows a DOH list is taking from one group for the sole purpose of giving to another - a clear DFR violation, which the company wants no part of.

Jim

If they had gotten a SLI that favored a minority of west pilots instead of the one they got, sure I think they would be willing to change it, at least the ones that it didn't favor. If there were enough disgruntled on both sides as to prevent a CBA from being ratified, would it then be legitimate to change it? Is it only that the west feels the argument that a CBA containing the Nic would not pass that makes that claim illegitimate? If a CBA does get voted down 3 times, do you think some might be willing to change it then? Too late if a judge intervenes now, isn't it?

I've said before that we lost DFR I in record time and unlike a lot of east pilots, I don't think it was just because of the judge. I feel that if nothing is changed it will happen again. I just question the company's motives and the place it is being settled.

Have your read the filings?

 

[Pi brat]

Who said I was good with Kirby?

I'd like more but the problem is that I don't trust USAPA to be able to get it. They like giving up more than getting more.

You and your friends have helped the company keep the Kirby by fighting about EVERTHING.

 

[Pi brat]

Fellow US Airways Pilots,

My name is Captain Bill McKee. I am running for President of USAPA and respectfully request your vote.

Already there is a great deal of rhetoric out on the line about this election. The truth is that this is not all that complicated. This election is about competence, experience, and who deserves your confidence. I will explain to you over the next few days why I deserve your respect in these areas. It is my sincere belief and hope that you will choose to install a competent team to work on your behalf.

As one of the precertification domicile reps, I certainly qualify as a “founder”. Many others may claim that title, but few of us have persevered and have deserved that recognition for the long haul. The only point here is that we, as a pilot group, genuinely remain vigilant to our original principles. We can think more later about who has succeeded and failed in this area, but for now I want you to understand that few are as qualified to understand and reflect on what we began and where we are now.

We all know where we need to go – to a unified place, in cooperation with our fellow pilots, our fellow employees and management. I see that path to success; I know how to make it happen within the appropriate bounds of our Constitution and By Laws.

There are long standing and immediate adversaries on our horizon. Our adversaries are organized and awaiting our apathy. We must all Vote! We cannot afford to be apathetic or to waiver. Vote!

I make this commitment to you:
To uphold, without waiver, our Constitutional objectives
To work with all pilots to develop a cross section of ideas and opinion to produce consensus
To unwaveringly defend all US Airways pilots rights in an inclusive and aggressive manner

I will be communicating with you frequently over the next few days and respectfully request your attention to the important decisions that are in all our futures.

Thank you for time and for your attention,

Captain Bill McKee
(704) 975-4009


"We are absolutely in a position to succeed, our framework is in place, and we need leadership that will capitalize on the foundation that you have built."

Whatever you think of Bill, he is right about one thing, we all need to VOTE.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You and your friends have helped the company keep the Kirby by fighting about EVERTHING.

Your east DNA is showing again...

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

The thing is, all groups are still there. It's just instead of being represented by ALPA, you are represented by USAPA(I know you guys disagree, but legally you are). Even if you were represented by ALPA, you wouldn't necessarily be making individual decisions, your union would. Same here. So, USAPA has the same rights AND responsibilities.

If it is POSSIBLE to change the SL at all, it seems it is up to the union and if they don't do it right then DFR II would be where it would be settled.

No Pi, the parties aren't there

Even your leadership admitted to that once USAPA came on property.

There is no west representations outside of USAPA.

 

[Move2CLT]

You and your friends have helped the company keep the Kirby by fighting about EVERTHING.

Congrats Pi. Two quick posts blaming everyone else.

Pathetic.

 

[Pi brat]

Congrats Pi. Two quick posts blaming everyone else.

Pathetic.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Plenty on the east and I've said that. But had nic come in just a little this side of what he did, maybe listened to Brucia, I don't think we would be here. The same questions I asked ahole, how do those actions HELP?

So how are you voting for now that Cleary/Mowery aren't running? I'm guessing Hummel/Bradford.