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US Pilots Labor Discussion

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You tell me, what did cheering the injunction do to move us ahead? How has telling the world you will scab at the drop of the hat move us forward?
I'll tell you this. What does cheering the injunction have to do with "fighting Everything"? Plus, it seems you like to lump all westies together just as much as you dislike all easties being lumped together... :lol:

Jim
 
The thing is, all groups are still there. It's just instead of being represented by ALPA, you are represented by USAPA(I know you guys disagree, but legally you are). Even if you were represented by ALPA, you wouldn't necessarily be making individual decisions, your union would. Same here. So, USAPA has the same rights AND responsibilities.

If it is POSSIBLE to change the SL at all, it seems it is up to the union and if they don't do it right then DFR II would be where it would be settled.
It is possible, but only if all the parties to the TA agree to modify it. Absent that, IMO, the NIC is fully binding per the RLA.

The question before Silver is not "can the TA be modified so that the NIC can be discarded?". The question before her is, "is a Non-NIC seniority list a violation of USAPA's DFR under the current terms of the TA?" The legally relevant question has nothing to do with what could happen if there was agreement between all parties, it has to do with what are the parties required to do absent a modification to the terms of the agreement.
 
There is plenty of blame to go around. Plenty on the east and I've said that. But had nic come in just a little this side of what he did, maybe listened to Brucia, I don't think we would be here. The same questions I asked ahole, how do those actions HELP?

So how are you voting for now that Cleary/Mowery aren't running? I'm guessing Hummel/Bradford.
I'm guessing McKee. He sounds the most egomaniacal. I'll pair him up with Bradford.
 
There is plenty of blame to go around. Plenty on the east and I've said that. But had nic come in just a little this side of what he did, maybe listened to Brucia, I don't think we would be here. The same questions I asked ahole, how do those actions HELP?
Orrrrrr, if you guys came off DOH and agreed to fences we wouldn't have had to go to arbitration.
 
It is possible, but only if all the parties to the TA agree to modify it. Absent that, IMO, the NIC is fully binding per the RLA.

The question before Silver is not "can the TA be modified so that the NIC can be discarded?". The question before her is, "is a Non-NIC seniority list a violation of USAPA's DFR under the current terms of the TA?" The legally relevant question has nothing to do with what could happen if there was agreement between all parties, it has to do with what are the parties required to do absent a modification to the terms of the agreement.
"absent a modification". That's funny!

What color is the sky in the world where bargaining excludes modifications?
 
Compass Correction Update: February 2, 2012

Vote Smart

Polls Open Today!

It’s not enough to just “get out and vote”; it’s imperative that each of our votes is cast as an educated and concerted vote.

The campaign is a vetting process wherein the candidates present and then debate ideas. They must articulate the problems, as they see them and they should offer concrete solutions. At the same time, they are introducing themselves to us; perhaps sharing their past experience and qualifications.

As we navigate this road leading to our USAPA Officer and Appeals Board election, we at the Compass Correction believe it’s important to do our homework and become informed voters. While apathy is understandable, these elections give us the ability to effect change and frankly to make some corrections.

Many will share strongly held opinions and some will even have some facts to back them up. Regardless, every opinion can be of some help in the process of determining who is best qualified for these positions.

As individuals however, we are responsible to filter the opinions and research the accuracy of information for ourselves, and thereby, make sure we Vote wisely. If you are unsure, talk with your fellow Pilots about the issues and the character and qualifications of the candidates. We must not allow this election to devolve into a mere popularity contest.

Instead, by hearing their ideas, and not listening to gossip about the various candidates, we can select those who possess a set of skills. We can hopefully find those who have a heart for acting in the best interests of the group and our profession as a whole. We need selfless officers who have a conscience.

The Process

If only half (2000) of say 4000 eligible Pilots voted in the election, and one of the candidates in that election receives 1001 votes, he/she would be the winner and elected in the first round with just ¼ of the Pilots voting for him/her.

If none of the nominees running for an Officer position receive more than 50% of the votes cast in their election, then there will be a run-off between the top two vote getters for that Officer position. If five candidates are running for President with 3000 votes cast and the results after the first vote are:

Because none of the candidates above received more than 50% of the Votes cast there would be a runoff between the two candidates receiving the most votes. In the case above it would be James Kirk and Chuck Lindy in a runoff.

Three candidates will be selected for the Appeals Board so make sure you research and formulate three choices for this important elected position.

If a member decides to change a vote while the polls are still open, they should re-vote for all of the positions on the ballot even if they are only changing their vote for one of the races, because their previous ballot in it’s entirety will be voided. By Constitution/UOM, the polls will be open for 21 days, so with a runoff the process could take nearly two months to complete. Therefore, we all need to stay engaged and active through the entire process. Of course, one must be a member in good standing in order to vote!

The Issues

There are a number of issues for the candidates to identify, address and expound upon on. In addition, we encourage Pilots to communicate with the candidates directly with individual questions and concerns.

The CC Team will be asking each member running for all Officer Positions a number of questions. We will start out by presenting the following question to all of the potential Officers candidates:

Please identify some of the successes and failures of USAPA over the past three years.

When we receive their responses, we will share them with our readers.

Fraternally,

Eric Rowe
PHL AB 330

Woody Menear
PHL B-767

Dave Shryack
CLT AB 320

Dave Ciabattoni
PHL AB-320
 
"absent a modification". That's funny!

What color is the sky in the world where bargaining excludes modifications?
Bargaining/negotiating can only be done when the various parties are open to attaining a mutually-beneficial agreement. Once an agreement is executed it stands unmodified unless all parties agree to amend the agreement. The Company and the West pilots are not under any obligation to negotiate such an amendment to the TA. Wasn't that made perfectly clear in the last hearing before judge Silver? Cleary wanted to reopen seniority negotiations and he was rebuffed by the other parties. Matter closed; no amendments to the fully enforceable TA will be considered. As the saying goes, USAPA can go pound sand on that request.
 
I think it's fair to say that every civil litigation case in America could be resolved if the two or more parties involved came to an agreement outside of court. If courts had to wait for all possible negotiations and agreements to be exhausted, they would never make a ruling on a civil matter. But alas parties often do not agree and they need judicial intervention to decide the matter. Same goes for this case.
 
That was proposed to the West at Wye River as told to me directly by an East ALPA Wye River participant. West rejected the offer.

NLG out.

Two things. Wye happened AFTER negs/med/arb so it was already over and the award was out.

And second, you fail to mention all the other demands the east wanted along with fences. Was any of that told to you?

Didn't think so.

You keep saying you're out. I'm asking you to stay that way.

You're reply was utterly stupid and uninformative. Please put some effort into your replies.
 
That was proposed to the West at Wye River as told to me directly by an East ALPA Wye River participant. West rejected the offer.

NLG out.
Notice he said (and you chose not to quote) "we wouldn't have had to go to arbitration." The east had it's chance to negotiate a settlement during negotiations but didn't - the east MC's hands were tied by the "nothing but DOH" chorus. Once the arbitrator ruled, that ended the process of getting a SLI. Way too late to negotiate a settlement.

Should have listened to the MC but didn't.

Jim
 
Bargaining/negotiating can only be done when the various parties are open to attaining a mutually-beneficial agreement. Once an agreement is executed it stands unmodified unless all parties agree to amend the agreement. The Company and the West pilots are not under any obligation to negotiate such an amendment to the TA. Wasn't that made perfectly clear in the last hearing before judge Silver? Cleary wanted to reopen seniority negotiations and he was rebuffed by the other parties. Matter closed; no amendments to the fully enforceable TA will be considered. As the saying goes, USAPA can go pound sand on that request.
Sure. No one is required to agree to bargaining proposals. That is why there is no violation of DFR.
 
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