US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

BS flag!!

Prior to the Nic, both sides agreed to the TA, and using its methodology for combining the airlines.

Post Nic, the east busted the West's union, and hides behind seperate ops to scab West jobs in the combined airline.

There is no hiding behind separate ops. That was and still is our right. If the economic equation doesn't muster up, no yes vote.

 

[Pi brat]

Plus, both sides didn't decide to stick with the TA anymore than the east pilots decided not to be paid $250/hour - the TA was a part of the contract so neither side had the option to ignore it. Didn't keep USAPA from trying when it was convenient though...

Jim

And the TA calls for separate ops until a joint contract is ratified, right? So easy a drooling retired airline pilot could grasp it.

 

[Pi brat]

Guess I'll have to make this so simple even a caveman would be able to understand - yes. That simple enough for you? If not, I'll see if I can find a caveman to interpret - claxon doesn't seem too busy...

Jim

There you go. Jim we all know how much you enjoy your "games". I'm glad I could help. My version of visiting the nursing home.

 

[Pi brat]

Your 16 year guy did move into a vacant slot prior to any outside pilot. They were recalled prior to third listers were they not? Can't say the same for west pilots accepting recall to the east. Odell is now furloughed because of the "merger". Had we not joined your happy mess he (and I) would be somewhere on the Delta seniority list. Everyone knows that Delta wouldn't merge with us because of the "rusthead" infection.

USAPA filed a grievance over that issue and lost, remember?

And you at Delta! What a laugh! You think it was just the easties that ruined it huh? Absent that they would have love to have teen Tempe take over and raise DL up to America West standards. Wait a minute, got to stop laughing............Ok, that's better. What was stopping them from merging with your powerhouse operation before we were around? Parker sure was really trying hard to pimp you out. Hopefully reality will set in for you.

 

[Metroyet]

I'm not sure who AAA stock was. All American? I believe the last symbol was USA. But anyway, what does that have to do with my company going out of business. Under that logic AWA went out of business. The two companies merged into one, a little different in most people's book.

Okay, so if the two companies were merged into one, define an "outside"pilot.

 

[nic4us]

That's you opinion and you are entitled to it, but I disagree. I see the east guys watching the west move up at a faster rate than they would have and saying that is not fair. That jump in relative position that EF would get from the Nic came from somewhere, and someone.

The problem as I see it is with both parties. There was a problem whether you think it should have been or not. BOTH sides decided to settle it their way, and here we are almost 7 years after the merger stuck with our lousy rates and still fighting tooth and nail.

It's funny that you say ENTIRE problem. Did you post a few day some issues you had with some of your west counterparts? Or was that someone else.

You just proved the point of my statement you quoted.

I said the east pilot look at the West pilots position and career in the company and say they want what the West pilots have.

You just agreed with my point that the east pilots do not look at their careers but the West pilots position and careers, and said "the east guys watching the West guys move up at a faster rate than they would have". But, this begs the question of,, move up at a faster rate than they would have assuming what?? A faster rate than they would have assuming the east pilots were allowed to take the West pilots positions?? or did you mean a totally immeasurable "move up faster than they would have" stand alone AWA??

I don't move up at a rate "faster than I would have". As a matter of fact, given that my relative position was substantially degraded, I need to move up at a faster rate, just to get back to the relative position I formerly held.

 

[nic4us]

There is no hiding behind separate ops. That was and still is our right. If the economic equation doesn't muster up, no yes vote.

And I suppose it was your right to strip the West of representation and form a scab union.

Enjoy your seperate ops rights.

 

[Phoenix]

And I suppose it was your right to strip the West of representation and form a scab union.

Enjoy your seperate ops rights.

Scab union.. You are so cute when you are angry.

 

[Phoenix]

I asked you a simple yes or no question.

If you put a wrist watch on a pig would it mean he would be able to tell you the time?

 

[traderjake]

Barton Brands holds that a union may not juggle the......" [ratified]"...... seniority roster....

If you don't have any real evidence to support your position make some up.

 

[CallawayGolf]

You just proved the point of my statement you quoted.

I said the east pilot look at the West pilots position and career in the company and say they want what the West pilots have.

You just agreed with my point that the east pilots do not look at their careers but the West pilots position and careers, and said "the east guys watching the West guys move up at a faster rate than they would have". But, this begs the question of,, move up at a faster rate than they would have assuming what?? A faster rate than they would have assuming the east pilots were allowed to take the West pilots positions?? or did you mean a totally immeasurable "move up faster than they would have" stand alone AWA??

I don't move up at a rate "faster than I would have". As a matter of fact, given that my relative position was substantially degraded, I need to move up at a faster rate, just to get back to the relative position I formerly held.

Excellent points. The west pilots instantly move down in seniority positions once the NIC-inclusive JCBA is ratified and then move up at the exact same pace from that point in time on as do their east counterparts on the same list. When a top of the list position is vacated, all pilots, east and west, move up together in their position (as long as the back fill occurs at the bottom of the list rather than just a net decrease in active positions). So the NIC for West pilots is a sudden decline in position followed by a methodical climb back up the seniority ladder with the 1:2 slotting devised by NIC. For the East pilots it is the reverse - a sudden increase in seniority status with a methodical 2:1 movement up over time (active at PID of course).


Now if by "move up faster" the comparison is to how quickly East pilots have moved up (or failed to move up) based on the long-term stagnation of the East pre-merger environment, then that is an apples to oranges comparison. Comparing East pilots career progression over the last 20 years to any other airline is bound to leave a sizable gap in seniority progression between the two groups. Is there any other airline anywhere that had guys on furlough with a sixteen--year hire date? If so, that that would be an apples-to-apples comparison for the east to make. Otherwise you might as well compare east pilots to those at Jetblue, Virgin America or FedEx for that matter and see how fast or slow people move in one company versus another.

 

[Pi brat]

Okay, so if the two companies were merged into one, define an "outside"pilot.

Someone outside of the company. So not west pilots, but Nicolau in effect made the east furloughees the ones "outside" side by putting every single west pilot in front of them.

 

[Pi brat]

And I suppose it was your right to strip the West of representation and form a scab union.

Enjoy your seperate ops rights.

Sometimes you make me just shake my head. It was a legitimate election. You were out voted, just like me. You have reps, just like me and I'd bet your reps listen to you more than mine do me. Your continuous improper use of scab and theft doesn't make it so.

Thanks, I will enjoy separate ops. Better than the alternative.

 

[Pi brat]

Y

I don't move up at a rate "faster than I would have". As a matter of fact, given that my relative position was substantially degraded, I need to move up at a faster rate, just to get back to the relative position I formerly held.

Then you must be in the top 3/4s or so of the captain list, because as of today most every other west pilot would have a greater relative position on the Nic than they would on a stand alone west list. EF's is over 10% greater. While their counterparts on the east would drop. And that gap gets bigger over time. It's just the way it is. I've posted that before on here and other boards and had people call me a liar. Well guess what? A west pilot cleaned up the Nic and made it really easy to see. Do you believe him if not me?

 

[Pi brat]

If you put a wrist watch on a pig would it mean he would be able to tell you the time?

Shhh. I made a pledge to help out some older folks. I figure letting Jim play his games keeps me out of the retirement home.