US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Speaking of profit sharing.

What, no resolutions over at scab central of how to cheat the West out of our share this year?

Too busy holding elections and losing laptops I suppose.

 

[nic4us]

NO JCBA=NO JOB THEFT, PERIOD!!!

You cannot be so dense as to not realize that the intent of the TA was to reach a JCBA, not to promote permanent seperate ops, as is the usapa MO.

Intentionally causing NO JCBA=JOB THEFT, PERIOD!!!

 

[No Land Green]

You cannot be so dense as to not realize that the intent of the TA was to reach a JCBA, not to promote permanent seperate ops, as is the usapa MO.

Intentionally causing NO JCBA=JOB THEFT, PERIOD!!!

Not "dense" at all. There is NO job theft going on. Get over it, go spend your profit sharing check and have a nice day. As usual this place is a total waste of time, but fun to watch you Westies boil in anger........

NLG out.

 

[Pi brat]

You cannot be so dense as to not realize that the intent of the TA was to reach a JCBA, not to promote permanent seperate ops, as is the usapa MO.

Intentionally causing NO JCBA=JOB THEFT, PERIOD!!!

nic when you go down this road you throw any credibility out the window. Face it. The TA bit you guys. When AOL decided to fight to the last man this should have been considered. There is no deadline for a joint contract.

 

[3dtv]

East pilots concerned about their seniority seem to be voting for Mckee.

No. Only those who want a Cleary puppet and no progress. All east candidates support date of hire. The west promises the impossible. Seniority will remain safe under separate ops until the day something changes that would entice the pilots to vote for a combined agreement. That most likely will be long after the age 65 attrition kicks in.

 

[CallawayGolf]

No. Only those who want a Cleary puppet and no progress. All east candidates support date of hire. The west promises the impossible. Seniority will remain safe under separate ops until the day something changes that would entice the pilots to vote for a combined agreement. That most likely will be long after the age 65 attrition kicks in.

How many millions have been spent so that the east pilots could eventually vote no on a NIC-inclusive TA? Couldn't that have been done with far less wasted dues money under ALPA without the DRF, DJ, Status Quo, RICO lawsuits not to mention the money spent on guaranteed loser grievances like LOA93 or ridiculous USA Today ads? Couldn't the east have been parked by the NMB without the added costs that USAPA brings? At least then the west would have retained the right to negotiate a solution if they wanted instead of letting the courts decide how this will be "resolved". Oh well, I guess living under a permanent injunction and not having two extra nickles to rub together from what USAPA has gained you must be superior to the alternative. If you look in the mirror and spot the enemy, you are on the right track.

 

[nic4us]

nic when you go down this road you throw any credibility out the window. Face it. The TA bit you guys. When AOL decided to fight to the last man this should have been considered. There is no deadline for a joint contract.

Actually, it is my opinion that when the east negotiating committee walked out of joint negotiations (which was their right) that ended the TA, and should have triggered the deadline dates contained therein. I believe that date to be 12 months after cessation of negotiations.

If or when we ever get to a second lawsuit, "the pilots in the employment of AAA" (not usapa) and the company are going to be on the hook all the way back to that date. It seems the two groups have conspired to force seperate ops, in direct conflict with the terms of the TA.

 

[Pi brat]

Actually, it is my opinion that when the east negotiating committee walked out of joint negotiations (which was their right) that ended the TA, and should have triggered the deadline dates contained therein. I believe that date to be 12 months after cessation of negotiations.

If or when we ever get to a second lawsuit, "the pilots in the employment of AAA" (not usapa) and the company are going to be on the hook all the way back to that date. It seems the two groups have conspired to force seperate ops, in direct conflict with the terms of the TA.

Oh, I'm sure you guys will do whatever you can to get the damages I've been hearing about for years now. But, I don't see too many other people with that opinion. Try it out on Doug at the next crew news.

 

[Pi brat]

How many millions have been spent so that the east pilots could eventually vote no on a NIC-inclusive TA? Couldn't that have been done with far less wasted dues money under ALPA without the DRF, DJ, Status Quo, RICO lawsuits not to mention the money spent on guaranteed loser grievances like LOA93 or ridiculous USA Today ads? Couldn't the east have been parked by the NMB without the added costs that USAPA brings? At least then the west would have retained the right to negotiate a solution if they wanted instead of letting the courts decide how this will be "resolved". Oh well, I guess living under a permanent injunction and not having two extra nickles to rub together from what USAPA has gained you must be superior to the alternative. If you look in the mirror and spot the enemy, you are on the right track.

What would have happened it the west had taken a different stance? If they had acknowledged that the Nic was a problem instead of forming an army to fight for every last right? They didn't, we didn't so here we are..........

 

[CallawayGolf]

What would have happened it the west had taken a different stance? If they had acknowledged that the Nic was a problem instead of forming an army to fight for every last right? They didn't, we didn't so here we are..........

The west is not at fault for where things are. The TA called for ALPA merger policy to be followed right through arbitration. The resulting award of that process wasn't proposed or constructed by the west. Everything that happened after May 1, 2007 was driven by the east pilots to cause or ensure the longest possible delay in implementing the NIC award. Now if the east would have stuck with ALPA long enough to get a NIC-inclusive TA out for ratification and then proven with 1, 2, or 10 attempts to validate the claim that such a TA would never pass on the east, because of the seniority issue, then perhaps the west would have had a reason to consider options to get a TA out that would pass. Beyond that, I don't believe there was much to convince the west MEC that a change was necessary and the a redo of some soft was in the best interest of the west pilots. Instead of reaching that point the east took control of the process and left the west with no recourse other than to use legal processes to protect their own interests. Now, there is nothing the west can do other than ride out the course set by the east and see where it leads. Conversely, the east still has the choice to accept the NIC and work on the singular goal of getting the best JCBA possible. No matter how you try to twist this, the east and west are not co-equals in the process of wasting millions and preventing any form of contract improvements. The east alone holds that distinction.

 

[Pi brat]

Some of you guys might have missed this website so I will post it again.

http://usapaappealboard.com

Mitch has done a good job with this. I think every pilot should take the time to read and listen and not just worry about the president election.

Thanks Mitch.

 

[fifidriver]

What would have happened it the west had taken a different stance? If they had acknowledged that the Nic was a problem instead of forming an army to fight for every last right? They didn't, we didn't so here we are..........

Hi Pi...
I agree with the last part of your statement. "so here we are ..........." However my take on the "how we got here" is slightly different. It boils down to a matter of expectations. Let me give you an example. Did you get your Girl Scout Cookies yet? If the little Girl Scout's mommy that brought the box(es) of cookies to the door told my kid that he could not eat the cookies, and then I came home and told him that he could eat half of the box, he would be happy. If the little Girl Scout's mommy that brought the box(es) of cookies to the door told him that he could eat all the cookies himself, and then I came home and told him he could only eat half of the box, he'd be cheesed. It seems to me that the East pilots were told that they didn't have to share. Now they're cheesed. Enjoy your Girl Scout cookies!

 

[nic4us]

Oh, I'm sure you guys will do whatever you can to get the damages I've been hearing about for years now. But, I don't see too many other people with that opinion. Try it out on Doug at the next crew news.

No, the damages are already done, it will be the lawyers who try to go for the damages, and the deeper pockets of the company.

I was thinking the question that should be asked of Doug was, does usapa have my social security number and who gave it to them? Then follw up with a, well is the company going to discipline that person in the same manner as they handled Ferguson, Scherf and Holmes?

The better question is however, where is my money for the TA-10 grievence, and why is the company conspiring with usapa to prevent payment to the West pilots for a grievence the company lost?

Or, how bout this one, "Hi Doug, Nic4us here, PHX 320 Captain, after the 9th ruled usapa mistakenly thought they prevailed, yet section 22 is still not complete, also, it is rumored that the AOL attorneys wrote to you stating the West pilot's position. What exactly did they say? Because here is what I am thinking. I think Marty Harper told you to shoit or get off the pot, that the TA has intent of consolidation of two companies, and that nowhere in the TA does it allow, imply or infer that either side or the company can force permanent seperate ops, and that the company appears to be in collusion with usapa to do the same. Further, that while no deadline is stated in the TA, that any rational jury member deciding damages would consider 7 years as being far too long for an agreement that makes mentions of mere days or months in all of its references of timelines, also that nowhere in industy history can we find a merger that has taken this long, and that the company is in violation of the terms it has with the West pilots and abetting usapa in their DFR activities and violation the West pilots rights to a merged company and a joint contract. Oh, one more thing, since the AFA now has a tentative agreement, and the pilots are the only workgroup to not even be close years ofter other workgroups have successfully combined, we are thinking damages started when you violated the TA and West min block to save east pilots from being furloughed, even allowing them to transfer from their furloughed West position back to the east position you created by violating West min block.

 

[Pi brat]

No, the damages are already done, it will be the lawyers who try to go for the damages, and the deeper pockets of the company.

I was thinking the question that should be asked of Doug was, does usapa have my social security number and who gave it to them? Then follw up with a, well is the company going to discipline that person in the same manner as they handled Ferguson, Scherf and Holmes?

The better question is however, where is my money for the TA-10 grievence, and why is the company conspiring with usapa to prevent payment to the West pilots for a grievence the company lost?

Or, how bout this one, "Hi Doug, Nic4us here, PHX 320 Captain, after the 9th ruled usapa mistakenly thought they prevailed, yet section 22 is still not complete, also, it is rumored that the AOL attorneys wrote to you stating the West pilot's position. What exactly did they say? Because here is what I am thinking. I think Marty Harper told you to shoit or get off the pot, that the TA has intent of consolidation of two companies, and that nowhere in the TA does it allow, imply or infer that either side or the company can force permanent seperate ops, and that the company appears to be in collusion with usapa to do the same. Further, that while no deadline is stated in the TA, that any rational jury member deciding damages would consider 7 years as being far too long for an agreement that makes mentions of mere days or months in all of its references of timelines, also that nowhere in industy history can we find a merger that has taken this long, and that the company is in violation of the terms it has with the West pilots and abetting usapa in their DFR activities and violation the West pilots rights to a merged company and a joint contract. Oh, one more thing, since the AFA now has a tentative agreement, and the pilots are the only workgroup to not even be close years ofter other workgroups have successfully combined, we are thinking damages started when you violated the TA and West min block to save east pilots from being furloughed, even allowing them to transfer from their furloughed West position back to the east position you created by violating West min block.

Please do, but I wouldn't say Captain, the AWF/Os have a chip on their shoulder about that. I can't wait to see his response. I guessing it will be like the ones Mr. I hate you Guys gets.

Show me in the transition agreement where a joint contract has a timeline on it. That would be a huge hammer for the company, wouldn't it? Times up! Vote on the Kirby!

Take off your theft hat and think about it nic.

 

[Pi brat]

The west is not at fault for where things are. The TA called for ALPA merger policy to be followed right through arbitration. The resulting award of that process wasn't proposed or constructed by the west. Everything that happened after May 1, 2007 was driven by the east pilots to cause or ensure the longest possible delay in implementing the NIC award. Now if the east would have stuck with ALPA long enough to get a NIC-inclusive TA out for ratification and then proven with 1, 2, or 10 attempts to validate the claim that such a TA would never pass on the east, because of the seniority issue, then perhaps the west would have had a reason to consider options to get a TA out that would pass. Beyond that, I don't believe there was much to convince the west MEC that a change was necessary and the a redo of some soft was in the best interest of the west pilots. Instead of reaching that point the east took control of the process and left the west with no recourse other than to use legal processes to protect their own interests. Now, there is nothing the west can do other than ride out the course set by the east and see where it leads. Conversely, the east still has the choice to accept the NIC and work on the singular goal of getting the best JCBA possible. No matter how you try to twist this, the east and west are not co-equals in the process of wasting millions and preventing any form of contract improvements. The east alone holds that distinction.

A big difference in "fault" and co-equals. The Nic award was and is a problem. Saying over and over that it is not and to eat it hasn't and won't fix things.