US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

Now you're trying to tell me what to do....I will not leave this alone.

Agreed, there was no bidding to larger aircraft due to the short timeline of MDA and things being up in the air during the BKs.

However, due to the fact that MDA was under the USAir ops certificate and USAir owned the aircraft at the time, USAir legally admitted that MDA was part of mainline, not a subsiduary.

MAINLINE PILOTS WORKING FOR USAIRWAYS, LEGALLY!

PERIOD!

breeze

ALPA knew they were Mainline and even patted themselves on the back by welcoming furloughed pilots back when they started MDA. The fact that USAir pilots were not allowed to bid across planes is evidence of the abuses that ALPA allowed to be foisted upon all its dues paying members at AAA. Any idiot knows that the types of privileges that were granted or denied to so-called MDA pilots is never a legitimate proof about what they were legally entitled to.

 

[luvn737s]

It just doesn't fit your fantacy that well. Just like the current situation, during the BKs, things were in limbo, therefore, there was no time involving aircraft bids. When it came down to fessing up, in the 11th hour, due to a single ops certificate, aircraft ownership, etc....USAir finally legally admitted that MDA was part of mainline.

Like I said, you weren't there and were not involved with the day to day ops.....so don't try to spin this......sorry, but you have it wrong.

breeze

 

[SparrowHawk]

The west won't like you now. Or Boeing Boy. ;-)

With my limited knowledge I threw an idea out into the public forum. Maybe it gets some traction and moves the situation off the dime??? Hey it's an internet board it's not like we're solving world hunger. All I know is it's been 7 yrs now and it might as well be 7 minutes in terms of progress, Lot's of times when I throw off the wall ideas out its to make people think and to think outside their comfort zone. This was such a time. hey maybe I'm on to something. A middle ground perhaps or maybe I'm full of poop. Either way I'll live.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Agreed, there was no bidding to larger aircraft due to the short timeline of MDA and things being up in the air during the BKs.

You really have lost it breezy. Agreeing with yourself and still wrong - one would have thought that was impossible but you managed it. How about bid 04-01/2/3/4/5/6/7 and 05-01/02/03. All mainline bids effective before the merger, yet not an E170 position nor a MDA pilot awarded anything on any of them.

BTW, do you have a link to the court case where US admitted that MDA was legally mainline? I bet you were one of those mainline pilots asking "Who are these MDA guys and why are they suing us?" back in 2005.

Tell me Sherlock - if the MDA pilots know that they were really mainline all along, why were they pushing the CoC grievance for selling the MDA airplanes?

Jim

 

[luvn737s]

It just doesn't fit your fantacy that well. Just like the current situation, during the BKs, things were in limbo, therefore, there was no time involving aircraft bids. When it came down to fessing up, in the 11th hour, due to a single ops certificate, aircraft ownership, etc....USAir finally legally admitted that MDA was part of mainline.

Like I said, you weren't there and were not involved with the day to day ops.....so don't try to spin this......sorry, but you have it wrong.

breeze

You are looking at it in flashback (no surprise there). MDA was never intended to be mainline and never was mainline and the pilots were never entitled to be placed in line with active mainline pilots. I watched this entire situation play out very closely. USAirway's intent was to shed airframes in the wake of Metrojet debacle (they were mainline, perhaps you have them confused) not add them.

Nicolau got it as close to right as you could, given the constraints he had to work within.

 

[mrbreeze]

If a guy with 4000 hours got hired with you and he was older, he'd be senior to you even with your 7000 hours, right?

So experience is insignificant after you get hired.

It's all about your hire date at your own airline. And those hire dates have to be integrated fairly in a merger.

Nic did that.

Yes, he might be senior to me, but we were both hired because of our experience.....he is a little older than me, but we are both at about the same hire date.

NIC has nothing to do with this equation.....apples and oranges.

Sure those hire dates have to be integrated, but on a timeline, not by slotting.
breeze

 

[Phoenix]

You can't bid CLT. Are you mainline? Define mainline for professor.

Touché.

The PHX junior pilots can accept an E190 at PHL or remain on furlough if they wish but no other PHX pilots are allowed to bid for those positions. In the West world this obviously means that the PHX pilots that accept the E190 are really furloughed from mainline.

 

[mrbreeze]

Ask any CoEx pilot where they got their uniforms from. Pay stub stock was the same. They even had the same travel cards as mainline. In fact, CoEx pilots looked like mainline more than MDA pilots did.

But they weren't mainline just like MDA pilots weren't mainline.

Period.

I don't think that is related.....the COEX pilots were not flying Cont aircraft under the Cont certificate and Cont did not admit that the Express pilots were part of mainline.

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

What any of that has to do with integrating the lists of two merging carriers, I don't know...

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

Not my union, not my leader, not a request.

You are drinking the usapa kool-aid again. Still not aware that nobody is interested in discussions or resolutions with reneging malcontents who cannot abide by their agreements.

Now you claim ALPA wasn't your union. 🙄

 

[mrbreeze]

You really have lost it breezy. Agreeing with yourself and still wrong - one would have thought that was impossible but you managed it. How about bid 04-01/2/3/4/5/6/7 and 05-01/02/03. All mainline bids effective before the merger, yet not an E170 position nor a MDA pilot awarded anything on any of them.

BTW, do you have a link to the court case where US admitted that MDA was legally mainline? I bet you were one of those mainline pilots asking "Who are these MDA guys and why are they suing us?" back in 2005.

Tell me Sherlock - if the MDA pilots know that they were really mainline all along, why were they pushing the CoC grievance for selling the MDA airplanes?

Jim

At the time that all these bids were going on, the MDA pilots were being held in limbo, not knowing where they belonged. Regardless of their actions and what took place, the USAir management admitted in the 11th hour that MDA was part of the mainline. there was no court statement, just upper management admitting that they legally were part of mainline.

The aircraft belonged to USAir.....the flights were worked by mainline ground personnel, and all was done under the USAir certificate. MDA was NEVER split off as a separate ops!!!

CoC grievance was launched before management's statement that they were in fact mainline.

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

You are looking at it in flashback (no surprise there). MDA was never intended to be mainline and never was mainline and the pilots were never entitled to be placed in line with active mainline pilots. I watched this entire situation play out very closely. USAirway's intent was to shed airframes in the wake of Metrojet debacle (they were mainline, perhaps you have them confused) not add them.

Nicolau got it as close to right as you could, given the constraints he had to work within.

Regardless of the intentions for MDA, they were, in the final hour proclaimed to be mainline by USAir management.

You may have watched this while salivating, but the bottom line is that they deserved a mainline number just because they worked for the mainline at USAirways, due to the management statement.

Again, it is your opinion as to what USAir's intent was......YOU OPINION DOESN'T MATTER HERE!

breeze

 

[Phoenix]

You stupid clown, you put a gun to our head and expect us to "discuss a resolution" while holding said gun to our collective temples? You clowns messed with the wrong people, you have been lucky so far (larger numbers, 9th, tempe collusion) but that won't hold forever.

The steam coming out of your ears is quaint, even if it does make you irrational. ALPA tried to get you to discuss a resolution. They didn't put a gun to your head, but yes, they were stupid clowns.

 

[traderjake]

All based on esperience, not entitlement.

I'm guessing there wasn't a preemployment spelling test.

 

[BoeingBoy]

there was no court statement, just upper management admitting that they legally were part of mainline.

So there wasn't any "legal admission" since there was no court ruling. Got it. Wonder why Glass said that MDA didn't exist, that it was mainline? It wouldn't be to win a grievance, would it?

Ya know, as of a certain event I agree with you but you haven't mentioned that event yet. Are you on the USAPA legal team, perhaps?

Besides, all that matters at this point is this - both sides agreed to binding arbitration and the arbitrator ruled. It really is that simple...

Jim

ps - did I miss your mea culpa for claiming everything was such a rush-rush that there were no bids during MDA's existence?