US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

It has nothing to do with us saying anything Pi. Ciabattoni knew, correctly, that the east would always be split between two factions. And with the west always voting in a bloc, the chances would be that we'd always win because the east would be splitting its vote.

It was about undercutting the west's ability to win an election and Dave will readily admit to this if you ask him.

Interesting too that you point out that a majority, even it is 35%, doesn't count in this cast.

I wouldn't know him if I saw him, but I ever do I will ask him. The thing is, it's the system we have. Like I asked pre, would it be any different if we did it the ALPA way? The fact is that sometimes the minority doesn't get its way. Sometimes that's fair, sometimes it isn't, but it is the way it is.

 

[Move2CLT]

HP I have to ask: Is it really "Binding" if it is subjected to a vote? What have you learned over the past 5 years? Are you a slow learner?

He's not, but you are.

It is binding. Your vote will always include the Nic. Now you may be happy as a clam on LOA 93 because of your successful side business, but many of your east brothers aren't so happy.

 

[ROACLT]

Under the ALPA way it would been by the BPR or there would have only been 2 candidates for each position or 6 for your appeal board depending on the election type and it would have been a 65/35 vote straight down the board. It seems USAPA's way allows for more than just 2 people to campaign for a position. It allows more opinion to be heard which you would probably normally like except that it is USAPA and on some key issues it seems you all see it one way and the East the other.

 

[Move2CLT]

Really? Often it does rule and often people do pick when it does and doesn't, even within the same organization.

A west candidate got a majority of the votes with 35% and you said it wasn't fair.

So which is it?

 

[Pi brat]

but many of your east brothers aren't so happy.

But from the election it appears there are not enough of them that unhappy enough to hand over the reins to the west.

 

[Move2CLT]

Under the ALPA way it would been by the BPR or there would have only been 2 candidates for each position or 6 for your appeal board depending on the election type and it would have been a 65/35 vote straight down the board. It seems USAPA's way allows for more than just 2 people to campaign for a position. It allows more opinion to be heard which you would probably normally like except that it is USAPA and on some key issues it seems you all see it one way and the East the other.

OK big guy. Step back from your computer, take a deep breath, and try again. Most adults can't understand that type of gibberish.

 

[Pi brat]

A west candidate got a majority of the votes with 35% and you said it wasn't fair.

So which is it?

He didn't get a majority of the votes cast and under our system he is not the winner. But he does get another chance in a two man field and that if a good showing for the west.

 

[Beancounter]

The results show West still votes West and East still votes East. It's still a 2:1 margin. Times aren't changing on the key issue facing you. You say people are being led by fools but with 120+ barrel of oil coming, maybe more with conflict in Iran, and history showing the PHX leisure market vulnerability to that and you should be worried about the West leadership leading you down the path it has. Warm fuzzies should be the last thing you have or maybe the people you call foolish aren't so foolish after all.

Try looking at those numbers again, it shows the east is very divided, and the fact that any pilots on the east voted for a west candidate says something. It also shows that a lot of east pilots were unhappy with the way the previous leadership was running things.
If 120+ oil is coming, then I sure don't want your DOH cram down, no thanks.
PHX a leisure market? Yes some of the market is, but it's not a Vegas or Palm Springs. It is our only west hub though, not going anywhere baring a merger. What is US going to do, pull out and entrench back east like was previously done? Yeah, that worked out well didn't it.
Your type on the east only has a few more years of having full control, hopefully things aren't damaged beyond repair. It's a given though that we won't be making any ground towards a unified group and good contract, unfortunately.

 

[ROACLT]

A west candidate got a majority of the votes with 35% and you said it wasn't fair.

So which is it?

Would you have preferred the ALPA way where the MEC elects officers? 8-3 you still would have lost.

 

[Move2CLT]

But from the election it appears there are not enough of them that unhappy enough to hand over the reins to the west.

Sometimes, Pi, you just can't fix stupid.

It takes a figurative 2 x 4 to the back of the skull to knock some sense into people. The bankruptcy judge did that for you with LOA 93 and Silver will do the same with the DJ.

 

[Pi brat]

OK big guy. Step back from your computer, take a deep breath, and try again. Most adults can't understand that type of gibberish.

Makes sense to me. If we had a system of simple majority, the east probably would have found a way to come up with one candidate, sort of like the west did, in order to not split the vote. Then we would not have heard the view point of the other east candidates, and I think that input helped define the candidates.

 

[Pi brat]

Sometimes, Pi, you just can't fix stupid.

It takes a figurative 2 x 4 to the back of the skull to knock some sense into people. The bankruptcy judge did that for you with LOA 93 and Silver will do the same with the DJ.

You're right, but you also can't fix anger, the individual has to do that and I see way too many people driven by that around here.

I did not vote for DOH, I voted for the candidates that I thought could lead us best going forward.

 

[Move2CLT]

Would you have preferred the ALPA way where the MEC elects officers? 8-3 you still would have lost.

I thought my obvious answer was a simple majority win and not a 50+1 for a candidate to be elected.

Why aren't you reading before you post? You're wasting my time.

 

[Beancounter]

He didn't get a majority of the votes cast and under our system he is not the winner. But he does get another chance in a two man field and that if a good showing for the west.

Yes, you get a point for that one. I believe the word we're looking for is plurality, not majority. We all know why that provision was put in there though.

 

[ROACLT]

Try looking at those numbers again, it shows the east is very divided, and the fact that any pilots on the east voted for a west candidate says something. It also shows that a lot of east pilots were unhappy with the way the previous leadership was running things.
If 120+ oil is coming, then I sure don't want your DOH cram down, no thanks.
PHX a leisure market? Yes some of the market is, but it's not a Vegas or Palm Springs. It is our only west hub though, not going anywhere baring a merger. What is US going to do, pull out and entrench back east like was previously done? Yeah, that worked out well didn't it.
Your type on the east only has a few more years of having full control, hopefully things aren't damaged beyond repair. It's a given though that we won't be making any ground towards a unified group and good contract, unfortunately.

The East may have been divided on leadership style but it appears they all still feel the same way about the Nic. A lot of East pilots? You probably got less than a 100 out of what 3300+? You seem to want to spin this because you refuse to see they feel as strongly about seniority as you do, maybe more so because they have more of their life vested in it. I think the reaction you are having is because in your mind you thought you would be able to turn East pilots against each other to vote for the candidate you wanted and you are irked that while they may disagree of the style of leadership they want, they still don't see things the you want them to.