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US Pilots Labor Discussion

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FL430 said:
HP I have to ask: Is it really "Binding" if it is subjected to a vote? What have you learned over the past 5 years? Are you a slow learner?
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Seniority is not subject to a vote. Only the contract is. Big difference.


Did you guys get to vote on the outcome of LOA 93?
 
BoeingBoy said:
Since DOH would turn many of them into junior captains/FO's instead of senior captains, I'd say so...

Jim
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No doubt that's very true.

But our boo boo was referring to the above 60 crowd.

Now for the pilots below that you are, as usual, spot on.

nevergiveup needs to give it up. He lacks common sense and has no idea how to negotiate a pilot contract.

Anyone who thinks CoC gives USAPA leverage is an idiot.
 
nevergiveup said:
Whenever one bargains for something, he should always start with a low offer if he is buying. When selling, he should start with a higher price but be willing to come down. Would you sell out your senior west brothers just to get the NIC?
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He said that was what he wanted, not his opening offer.
 
Move2CLT said:
No doubt that's very true.

But our boo boo was referring to the above 60 crowd.
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63 and above I believe. But if DOH went into effect tomorrow it'd hurt them too. I know that the consensus seems to be that there won't be a contract in at least 2 years, but if USAPA gets clearance for DOH you might be surprised how fast they could negotiate (and give up) for it.

By my rough count from USAPA 2008 DOH list, there'd only be ~55 west pilots in the top 1000 and ~175 in the top 2000. The west has what...800 captains? Over 1/2 of them would have FO seniority under DOH...and none would be in the top ~700.

Jim
 
Move2CLT said:
Yep. Baby steps.

Cleary gone. TP soon to take a hike. Appeal Board all west. Nic in the bag.

WINNING!
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I like your self centered attitude....but I wouldn't call it winning. We are happy with it too......by the time you get your junior baby steps out of the way, we will all be retired. Sure it's LOA93 wages, but the PBGC monies on top make it more than you guys are making.

Smooth sailin'

breeze
 
nevergiveup said:
Whenever one bargains for something, he should always start with a low offer if he is buying. When selling, he should start with a higher price but be willing to come down. Would you sell out your senior west brothers just to get the NIC?
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Under DOH even our senior brothers become junior. So they are demanding the Nicolau too.

Check the votes. Do you think a lot of west pilots voted for McKee or Hummel?
 
ROACLT said:
The East may have been divided on leadership style but it appears they all still feel the same way about the Nic. A lot of East pilots? You probably got less than a 100 out of what 3300+? You seem to want to spin this because you refuse to see they feel as strongly about seniority as you do, maybe more so because they have more of their life vested in it. I think the reaction you are having is because in your mind you thought you would be able to turn East pilots against each other to vote for the candidate you wanted and you are irked that while they may disagree of the style of leadership they want, they still don't see things the you want them to.
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No, actually I wanted to back a third lister. I didn't think the west guys would even have a shot at making it to a run off. That surprised me. The east is even more divided than i thought. It's not just about the Nic, that will run it's course in the courts. It's about a decent contract and uniting the two pilot groups. The current leadership was willing to accept a piece of garbage contact just to get their DOH pipe dream. Notttt Coooool.
 
crazystnic said:
There you go again with the lies. West captains do not become fo because of doh with crs
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I've never understood why USAPA is messing around with conditions and restrictions on their seniority proposal. Is it just because its the right thing to do? Does USAPA only want what's best for the west? Or perhaps they are afraid that a DOH list with no C&Rs will not sit well with a federal judge.

Still, if DOH is the "gold standard", it meets within the "wide range of reasonableness" called for by the RLA or as interpreted by case law, and it is consistent with the USAPA constitution, then why include them at all. Just push a straight DOH list across the table and demand that it be accepted by Management. It seems like DOH with C&Rs actually weakens USAPA's claims that DOH is legal and is objectively fair to every US pilot based on best practices for unions and membership. If DOH is fair to the west then there should be no need to complicate the issue with needless restrictions on its use.

Bottom line: is DOH a fair method of integration for US Airways pilots or not?
 
crazystnic said:
There you go again with the lies. West captains do not become fo because of doh with crs
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Better correct your boy Pi because he says that under Nicolau east captains will become F/O's.

If west captains are forced out of PHX the C&R do nothing to protect them from being downgraded.
 
There are solutions but you want to continue the fight. That is fine. Even Parker suggested in crew news he would prefer we talk it out.
 
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