US Pilots Labor Discussion

[fodase]

"Well Judge, it doesn't matter, but just to keep you up on current events, our boys did real good".

I'm sure in the interest of full disclosure Dr. Jacobs told the judge that amazingly the west had exactly the number of pilots running as slots available, while the east had approx. 3 times the number of east candidates for each office. For appeal board there were 3 west pilots for 3 slots, while there were 9 east pilots running for the 3 slots. In almost every category the east vs. west votes were around 2 to 1. I'm sure he did.

Why do they call him Dr. while he is acting as an attorney? Do they call Jeff First Officer in divorce court?

How many MIGS are there in PHX?

Pi, isn't it amazing usapa tells the judge that the plaintiffs don't represent the pilots, yet they win the most votes? Doesn't really matter, the company made the wests case for us, tick tock.

 

[Move2CLT]

Unlike the title "Captain" for pilots, which depends on the ebb and flow of seniority and has nothing to do with the formal education level attained.

Jim

Oh snap.

 

[Move2CLT]

Pi, isn't it amazing usapa tells the judge that the plaintiffs don't represent the pilots, yet they win the most votes? Doesn't really matter, the company made the wests case for us, tick tock.

Ya, still winning.

 

[ROACLT]

"Well Judge, it doesn't matter, but just to keep you up on current events, our boys did real good".

I'm sure in the interest of full disclosure Dr. Jacobs told the judge that amazingly the west had exactly the number of pilots running as slots available, while the east had approx. 3 times the number of east candidates for each office. For appeal board there were 3 west pilots for 3 slots, while there were 9 east pilots running for the 3 slots. In almost every category the east vs. west votes were around 2 to 1. I'm sure he did.

Why do they call him Dr. while he is acting as an attorney? Do they call Jeff First Officer in divorce court?

How many MIGS are there in PHX?

I am sure you summed up the response that will be filed by USAPA's counsel. If Addington did file something like that all it did was open the door for USAPA to drive home the point that after 4 years of litigation the margin was 2:1 and the only votes attained by the West were equal to their number of members. What better way to display to the court that any court interference could prevent any ratification of agreement from happening. Not to bright for a DR. 🙄

 

[Res Judicata]

I am sure you summed up the response that will be filed by USAPA's counsel. If Addington did file something like that all it did was open the door for USAPA to drive home the point that after 4 years of litigation the margin was 2:1 and the only votes attained by the West were equal to their number of members. What better way to display to the court that any court interference could prevent any ratification of agreement from happening. Not to bright for a DR. 🙄

The court doesn't give a rats ### if you ever ratify anything! Your right to a contract that suits your expectations doesn't even come close to trumping the Federally mandated rights of the West. So in your F'ed up world you can sue your employer for not offering you the amount of money you want and THE FEDERAL COURT is going to rule in your favor against the company ORDERING them to pay you more money until you're happy?

You guys live in some alternate universe.

 

[ROACLT]

The court doesn't give a rats ### if you ever ratify anything! Your right to a contract that suits your expectations doesn't even come close to trumping the Federally mandated rights of the West. So in your F'ed up world you can sue your employer for not offering you the amount of money you want and THE FEDERAL COURT is going to rule in your favor against the company ORDERING them to pay you more money until you're happy?

You guys live in some alternate universe.

The court is simply going to extricate itself and allow negotiations to determine the final contract. By inserting itself, which it won't it knows it could actually hinder the process as the Ninth Circuit was so eloquently aware of. What did your illustrious corporate leader say? It's a lottery ticket and US Airways doesn't have enough money to buy it. Courts don't negotiate terms between unions and employers, not even seniority, which is something you good DR. fails to understand.

 

[luvn737s]

The only benefit of mentioning the vote tally to the judge is to bolster their argument that the class of west, accurately represents the pilots in support of the NIC as proven by the votes.

USAPA can fairly represent the pilots by presenting and defending a TA inclusive of the NIC for pilot ratification. The can, but won't because they know that while they had the support to win an emotion-fueled representation election, they do not have the support of a DOH-at-all-costs agenda.

If Silver rules for the west, I would strongly expect the pilots to vote for Ferguson/Koontz. If she does so after the run-off and the east do-nothings manage to scam a win, then the time will be ripe for a recall or card drive.

Either way, USAPA will change and the AFO's can't stop it.

 

[traderjake]

Not to bright for a DR. 🙄

Not "too" bright, even for a DOH advocate.

 

[Move2CLT]

The court is simply going to extricate itself and allow negotiations to determine the final contract. By inserting itself, which it won't it knows it could actually hinder the process as the Ninth Circuit was so eloquently aware of. What did your illustrious corporate leader say? It's a lottery ticket and US Airways doesn't have enough money to buy it. Courts don't negotiate terms between unions and employers, not even seniority, which is something you good DR. fails to understand.

When are you guys going to figure this out!?!

The court is not negotiating anything. USAPA is free to negotiate. We even understand that. But USAPA has to do it fairly.

Silver will tell the company that it won't be protected from a lawsuit should it agree to something other than the Nic. The company will tell USAPA that S22 is closed and there won't be a thing USAPA can do about it.

The company and USAPA are tied together via the TA and the TA has the Nic in it.

Youre not very bright if you can't see that.

 

[Pi brat]

Once a doctor always a doctor.

And I wouldn't expect you or most easties to understand the significance of what was filed today. You guys don't keep up with much or you get your info from USAPPy.

I will wait for the Judge that is responsible for the significance to tell me because she is the only one that counts. Too may on both sides of this fight attach major significance to small issues that later are proven to be insignificant.

 

[Pi brat]

Dr Jacobs has a JD in law - Juris Doctorate. It's the equivalent of a PhD but in law, just as MD - Doctor of Medicine - is the equivalent of a PhD but in medicine. As such, he earned the title "Doctor" - twice. Unlike the title "Captain" for pilots, which depends on the ebb and flow of seniority and has nothing to do with the formal education level attained.

Jim

I should have put a smiley after my "Dr" statement. I have a west friend that has filled me in on Dr. Jacobs and his education and professional achievements are impressive.

All of that post was a little TIC. I just don't see the relevance and if you really look at the votes it shows that we are still severely divided. USAPA could use the numbers to support their theory that a Nic inclusive contract wouldn't pass as we are 5 years into this and still voting on east/west lines. I doubt it would have any more bearing. (oops, read ROACLT's post about this after I posted)

There was another thing I read that I wondered if it really made any difference. In a USAPA filing they corrected the west firm's naming of the court in D.C. Does that matter to a judge that they got the name wrong? Does it make her look harder at the other things they file if they can't get the name of the courts right, or is it just more b.s.?

I often wonder if lawyers are really paid by the sheet of paper used.

 

[Pi brat]

Pi, isn't it amazing usapa tells the judge that the plaintiffs don't represent the pilots, yet they win the most votes? Doesn't really matter, the company made the wests case for us, tick tock.

Is USAPA still arguing that? At the CLT Szymanski said that he thought Seham trying to fight class status was a mistake. That we wanted you all represented so you would all be bound by the decision.


I'll be honest with you, after an hour or so of reading this stuff my eyes cross and my mind wonders. One thing that I've learned for sure from all of this is that I made the correct choice in not going to law school.

 

[Pi brat]

If Silver rules for the west, I would strongly expect the pilots to vote for Ferguson/Koontz. If she does so after the run-off and the east do-nothings manage to scam a win, then the time will be ripe for a recall or card drive.

Either way, USAPA will change and the AFO's can't stop it.

I'm careful about predictions, but I feel very comfortable in saying she will not rule before the runoff is done.

As for the rest, we'll see, you may be right.

 

[cleardirect]

I should have put a smiley after my "Dr" statement. I have a west friend that has filled me in on Dr. Jacobs and his education and professional achievements are impressive.

All of that post was a little TIC. I just don't see the relevance and if you really look at the votes it shows that we are still severely divided. USAPA could use the numbers to support their theory that a Nic inclusive contract wouldn't pass as we are 5 years into this and still voting on east/west lines. I doubt it would have any more bearing.

There was another thing I read that I wondered if it really made any difference. In a USAPA filing they corrected the west firm's naming of the court in D.C. Does that matter to a judge that they got the name wrong? Does it make her look harder at the other things they file if they can't get the name of the courts right, or is it just more b.s.?

I often wonder if lawyers are really paid by the sheet of paper used.

I think what it shows is that usapa is and will continue to fight and argue about anything and everything. Did you see the list of things usapa wants to strike?

You have 2 parties looking for a solution and 1 party fighting about the smallest detail demanding discovery and dragging the answer out for months or years. The judge wants this case DONE and out of her court.

Read the west filing. Disputed a lot of facts but so what. Most of usapa's "facts" were irrelevant to the case.

 

[Pi brat]

I think what it shows is that usapa is and will continue to fight and argue about anything and everything. Did you see the list of things usapa wants to strike?

You have 2 parties looking for a solution and 1 party fighting about the smallest detail demanding discovery and dragging the answer out for months or years. The judge wants this case DONE and out of her court.

Read the west filing. Disputed a lot of facts but so what. Most of usapa's "facts" were irrelevant to the case.

As I said in my post. I would think an attorney would get the names of courts right though........