US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

Clear,

I give up. You have all the answers clear. I'm sure in a few months I will be enjoying an industry leading contract and the Nicolau award governing my bidding.

I never said anything about the C&BLs ruling Silver.
I never said anything about the C&BLS forcing DOH in the next merger
Do the C&BLS have anything to do with our current reps and officers, or can they ignore them?

Clear, you do not listen. You have your preconceived notions and they govern everything with you.

Good luck.

 

[Pi brat]

dupe

 

[BoeingBoy]

USAPA has asked the company to continue negotiations outside of mediation and presented a comprehensive contract proposal last year. How does that fit with what you are claiming.

USAPA has insisted on it's integrated list since 2008. Despite claiming that seniority is something that can be negotiated, USAPA demands that the company accept it's list. Once the DFR suit was filed, USAPA has sought to delay every step along the way but one - when found guilty of DFR it sought an expedited hearing/ruling from the 9th. When the 9th kicked the can of worms down the road instead of giving cloture, the company filed the DJ which USAPA has sought to delay at every turn, while still insisting that the company accept USAPA's "negotiable" seniority list. The company won't accept USAPA's list unless a court says that the company can accept it without legal liability but USAPA continues to insist that it be accepted, not negotiated. In fighting to delay the DJ by opposing the west class certification, seeking discovery and an extended timeline for the DJ, etc, USAPA has been seeking to delay a judicial ruling that could move negotiations forward. Since 2008 - four years - it is USAPA that has delayed negotiations by not being willing to negotiate "negotiable" seniority and seeking to delay every attempt to resolve the issue in the courts.

Personally, I think that the officers and BPR suspect that they will eventually lose so are doing everything possible to put off that day of reckoning. In doing so, however, USAPA opens itself to more DFR charges - including failing it's DFR in the writing of it's conditions/restrictions that go with it's integrated seniority list demand.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

USAPA has insisted on it's integrated list since 2008. Despite claiming that seniority is something that can be negotiated, USAPA demands that the company accept it's list. Once the DFR suit was filed, USAPA has sought to delay every step along the way but one - when found guilty of DFR it sought an expedited hearing/ruling from the 9th. When the 9th kicked the can of worms down the road instead of giving cloture, the company filed the DJ which USAPA has sought to delay at every turn, while still insisting that the company accept USAPA's "negotiable" seniority list. The company won't accept USAPA's list unless a court says that the company can accept it without legal liability but USAPA continues to insist that it be accepted, not negotiated. In fighting to delay the DJ by opposing the west class certification, seeking discovery and an extended timeline for the DJ, etc, USAPA has been seeking to delay a judicial ruling that could move negotiations forward. Since 2008 - four years - it is USAPA that has delayed negotiations by not being willing to negotiate "negotiable" seniority and seeking to delay every attempt to resolve the issue in the courts.

Personally, I think that the officers and BPR suspect that they will eventually lose so are doing everything possible to put off that day of reckoning. In doing so, however, USAPA opens itself to more DFR charges - including failing it's DFR in the writing of it's conditions/restrictions that go with it's integrated seniority list demand.

Jim

If they didn't want a contract how does that jive with the company's case in the injunction this summer? Pressure to get the company to drop the DJ and accept DOH? I don't know, I'm not an officer, but I think they really thought they could negotiate a contract and fight the Nic, which I saw as mutually exclusive. Not delay. Why the comprehensive proposal? Why accept PBS? Why ask the company to negotiate outside of the mediator?

From what I remember DOH was presented by USAPA and never negotiated by the company. I guess if you pass a proposal and never get a counter you could call it demanding...........

 

[fatherabraham]

Bottom line: is DOH a fair method of integration for US Airways pilots or not?

BC,
I am inclined not to reply to your questions as it seems you've been on an attack/insult mode as of late.
IMO, the majority East today have an all too familiar knowledge of being harmed by the more senior. Thus, I think they realize the unfairness of strict DOH to you as well. But I doubt you'll believe my motives.
FA

 

[No Land Green]

I guess if you pass a proposal and never get a counter you could call it demanding...........

That's how Tempe works from what I have been told.

NLG

 

[BoeingBoy]

If they didn't want a contract how does that jive with the company's case in the injunction this summer? Pressure to get the company to drop the DJ and accept DOH?

You get a prize. Look over the evidence the company presented - updates and messages tying getting a contract (with DOH since USAPA is unwilling to negotiate seniority) to exerting pressure on the company.

I don't know, I'm not an officer, but I think they really thought they could negotiate a contract and fight the Nic, which I saw as mutually exclusive. Not delay. Why the comprehensive proposal? Why accept PBS? Why ask the company to negotiate outside of the mediator?

Someone is smarter than the old MEC. USAPA wants to be able to claim that it wants a contract, just like the seniority list C&R's allow it to claim that it's "protecting" the west career expectations.

From what I remember DOH was presented by USAPA and never negotiated by the company. I guess if you pass a proposal and never get a counter you could call it demanding...........

The company isn't going to touch USAPA's list without court sanctioned immunity unless there's absolutely no other choice. That was true in 2008 and it's still true today. Knowing, at the very latest since the DJ was filed, has USAPA altered it's stance on the seniority list? Has it altered the C&R's? No, it presented it's list and hasn't changed it's position since. Has there been give and take in other sections that the NAC has closed or has USAPA stayed with it's initial proposals? USAPA has been willing to negotiate just about every other section of the contract other than 22. But until section 22 is put to bed there won't be a tentative and section 22 won't be put to bed until the courts finally resolve the situation. USAPA knows that, the company knows that, the west knows that, why is it so hard for the east to realize that.

Jim

 

[fodase]

I

From what I remember DOH was presented by USAPA and never negotiated by the company. I guess if you pass a proposal and never get a counter you could call it demanding...........

Hmm how many times in history has seniority been negotiated? Get a clue, the company won't negotiate seniority

 

[fatherabraham]

They might not win, they are hard to win, but I'd put money on it being filed.

Pi,
All ready called a friend who claims he has an in with Judge Wopner. Our class will be called the FEAFO's for Former East Angry First Officers. Take it to the bank!
FA

 

[Move2CLT]

That's how Tempe works from what I have been told.

NLG

And from what I've seen, demanding stuff with no leverage is how USAPA works.

 

[luvn737s]

Just like we have told you.

the NIC is not in play until we have a contract and binding ratification..Which ALPA and USAPA has told you won't be happening anytime soon.

PROVE IT!

Put the Nic-inclusive contract out there without goons threatening their fellow pilots, and with modest pay increases and the AWA work rules plus PBS and I would be willing to bet that it would pass. Over a third of the pilots voted for the west candidates. Imagine if they could vote again to relieve themselves of the USAPA-imposed poverty.

No, USAPA was formed to put control in the hands of the pilots - but not too much control.

 

[Pi brat]

Pi,
All ready called a friend who claims he has an in with Judge Wopner. Our class will be called the FEAFO's for Former East Angry First Officers. Take it to the bank!
FA

A stroke of genius! They pay the losing party's claim on those shows, right? We put Cleary and Ferguson on TV, get a verdict and get paid. I'm thinking more like Judge Joe Brown. ;-)

 

[Res Judicata]

Vote BRADFORD! His predictions and understanding of the law is flawless!

He didn't mention that six years after this was recorded, that "his pilots" would have paid a billion dollars for his idiotic advise...with no end in sight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duv_dZf_SGw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Metroyet]

What a completely smug A.H. How anybody could possible believe a word he says at this point is unfathomable. If there is any lingering doubt as to how fair Hummel plans to be with the West, one only has to look at his choice as running mate. This idiot.

Vote BRADFORD! His predictions and understanding of the law is flawless!

He didn't mention that six years after this was recorded, that "his pilots" would have paid a billion dollars for his idiotic advise...with no end in sight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duv_dZf_SGw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[BoeingBoy]

Vote BRADFORD! His predictions and understanding of the law is flawless!

Did you notice that he said that seniority is NOT negotiable? That didn't last long, did it? What did it take...a few months?...to become "like crew meals"...

Jim