US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

'Lifestyle FO's'=guys that could hold left seat but prefer to tour Italy instead as a FO on the intl equip.

That's what I mean by not thinking before posting...

What vacancy does a "Lifestyle FO" leave when he/she retires? Here's a hint - the job they held before retiring...

Jim

 

[Freighterguynow]

Just an itsy-bitsy detail - how many of those are on medical and won't leave a vacancy for anyone to move up to when they retire?

Jim

Exactly the same E vs W Jim

Which you already knew.

 

[cleardirect]

Just an itsy-bitsy detail - how many of those are on medical and won't leave a vacancy for anyone to move up to when they retire?

Jim

Winner, winner Chicken Dinner!!!!



Latest bid shows 2527 biddable positions. Junior seniority shows 3410.

25.9% of the east list has not biddable position. No bidable position means when they leave it helps no on one. So of the 40 retirements coming up, 10 of them don't matter.

Over the next 10 years of the 2194 east retirements only 1625 move the line. How many of those will be F/O's lifestyle decisions? 10% 20%?

Once again the east pilots overvalue and overplay your hand.

 

[PullUp]

Just an itsy-bitsy detail - how many of those are on medical and won't leave a vacancy for anyone to move up to when they retire?
Jim

I don't have that information available to me. Maybe someone else here does. I just have the age 65 attrition numbers. I get your point, though I think the significance of that number pales with the totals. Also, when someone MEDs out, someone moves up to do his job...so the attrition is captured either way - but system seniority numbers don't change when that happens.
Cheers.

 

[PullUp]

That's what I mean by not thinking before posting...

What vacancy does a "Lifestyle FO" leave when he/she retires? Here's a hint - the job they held before retiring...

Jim

But not the job they could have held. So, the CO vs. FO retirement argument loses steam when you take into account the FO's that choose to be FO's on the big iron. A junior pilot does not care where a guy retires from, just that the guy had a slot on the SYSTEM seniority list higher than him. An FO fulfills that requirement, if he is senior. That's all I'm sayin. The westies blather about FOs retiring not creating CO slots for junior guys to move into, but that is not the case on the east.
Cheers.

 

[crazystnic]

As usual, can't refute the facts so insult the messenger. Given all the numbers thrown around for retirement, I'm not sure any east pilot is doing anything but guessing.

I did make a mistake and you didn't even catch it you read my post so closely. June 1, 2013 isn't 6 months into 2013 but rather 5 months. Throw in the part of this December and it's 40 retirements in 5+ months, not 6+ months.

Jim

If the retirments and attrition is not that strong, why is the west making such a big deal about it and wanting to put there 2005 new hires in front of our guys who have earned and waited for those retirments...????

The retirment numbers and Medical outs will be strong, the most we have ever seen here..

get a clue.

 

[crazystnic]

Mmmmm, if that's the case, why is is that ALPA had almost finished negotiations, and now after 4+ years USAPA looks like they've barely started. You seriously need to wake up. The company is taking advantage of the fact that USAPA doesn't want a contract. Is the company making it worse? Yes, but they are not the main force behind the hold up. It's YOU.

because ALPA would give away the store and sign onto anything as usual.

 

[Metroyet]

If the retirments and attrition is not that strong, why is the west making such a big deal about it and wanting to put there 2005 new hires in front of our guys who have earned and waited for those retirments...????

The retirment numbers and Medical outs will be strong, the most we have ever seen here..

get a clue.

Maybe because they were owed a raise 5years ago until you decided to abandon all forms of ethics and screwed them over. Nobody wants to move to PHL but they all could use a raise. Easties should be intimately familiar with that by now.

 

[PullUp]

Lifestyle or money is a decision we all make.
If you choose lifestyle sit in the right seat but get paid what it pays.

>Agree 100%

If you don't want to upgrade stop worrying about the west taking them.

>Ah, disagree 100%. West windfall under Nic precludes 25+ year guys from ever seeing the 330 CO seat, giving these instead to westies with 12 year seniority.

Seniority gentlemen. Learn what it means. one month or 17 years if you are the bottom of the list your seniority is junior.

>Agree 100%

I don't want to hear another thing about east F/O's that can't upgrade because of the Nicolau.

>You guys don't get it. It's not the short term upgrades, it's the international upgrades years from now. Or the furloughs after the merger. To be on the street while the guy above me is working with 13 years less employment is not right.

Boy you don't get to have the lifestyle, the money, and the seat while requiring the west to pay for it.

>No one wants the west to pay for anything, especially another lawsuit. Sheesh. Besides, the money only comes from one place - the paycheck. For the west to assume that the east is denying them upgrade opportunities is hogwash.

 

[PullUp]

Maybe because they were owed a raise 5years ago until you decided to abandon all forms of ethics and screwed them over. Nobody wants to move to PHL but they all could use a raise. Easties should be intimately familiar with that by now.

Ah, so the west is entitled to a raise? And you are willing to walk over east guys and their families to do it?
What happened to 'we don't want your slots on the east' and 'nobody wants to move from the west'.
I thought is was BS then, and now you've proved my case.
A fine lot you are.
Sheesh.

 

[Phoenix]

Winner, winner Chicken Dinner!!!!



Latest bid shows 2527 biddable positions. Junior seniority shows 3410.

25.9% of the east list has not biddable position. No bidable position means when they leave it helps no on one. So of the 40 retirements coming up, 10 of them don't matter.

Over the next 10 years of the 2194 east retirements only 1625 move the line. How many of those will be F/O's lifestyle decisions? 10% 20%?

Once again the east pilots overvalue and overplay your hand.

Dang if I had three ex-wives you would babble more than all of them put together, but your golfing preacher would still out do you.

 

[PullUp]

Winner, winner Chicken Dinner!!!!



Latest bid shows 2527 biddable positions. Junior seniority shows 3410.

25.9% of the east list has not biddable position. No bidable position means when they leave it helps no on one. So of the 40 retirements coming up, 10 of them don't matter.

Over the next 10 years of the 2194 east retirements only 1625 move the line. How many of those will be F/O's lifestyle decisions? 10% 20%?

Once again the east pilots overvalue and overplay your hand.

Under separate Ops, east guys get 1625 slots. Wonderful, we'll take them. A 25 year guy moves to Sys Seniority 1000 or so.
Enough to hold a decent block on Group 2 or Reserve on Group 1.
Under the Nic, how many upgraded positions would be there?
Answer: not as many...especially if 1625 west guys move to PHL and CLT, n'est pas?
Solutions?
Ah, so now we see the problem.

 

[nic4us]

Ah, so the west is entitled to a raise? And you are willing to walk over east guys and their families to do it?
What happened to 'we don't want your slots on the east' and 'nobody wants to move from the west'.
I thought is was BS then, and now you've proved my case.
A fine lot you are.
Sheesh.

Said the reneging malcontent who has stolen a West job and put a West pilot and his family on the street.

Lets make one thing perfectly clear. The West has, and always will support the position of bettering the entire pilot group. That means improved pay and working conditions for all.

It is the reneging east that looks to trick screw the system and steal something that is not theirs.

 

[nic4us]

Dang if I had three ex-wives you would babble more than all of them put together, but your golfing preacher would still out do you.

Dang, if I had three ex-wives, all three of them put together would not have caused as much commotion as the whinning east pilot group.

 

[PullUp]

Dang, if I had three ex-wives, all three of them put together would not have caused as much commotion as the whinning east pilot group.

C- for spelling. Spelled "Whining".
AOL needs to hire a better caliber of shill.