US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

The "what if USAirways furloughs 1000 pilots" is just to deflect what the true issue is between our groups.

Save your lies for the USAPA meeting.

It's demonstrates that C&Rs are BS and that East F/Os steal jobs in the event we furlough.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Save your lies for the USAPA meeting.

It's demonstrates that C&Rs are BS and that East F/Os steal jobs in the event we furlough.

There's number one of 50.....

 

[Metroyet]

If US Air gets released into self help and imposes a decent nic. Inclusive contract, what is the USAPA plan then? They've always assumed the strike threat would cripple US Air...what if Parker needs a contract to get AA done, asks the NMB for release and is granted such. Probably need to trim a bunch of jobs anyway...why not take vollunteers?

The Industry isn't going to wait forever. When they need this wrapped up, they're going to.

 

[cleardirect]

If they furlough 1000 pilots when combined attrition is over 250/year, this place is toast anyway.
Whoever gets furloughed first gets to send out the first resume.

How did that work out for you last time? Sending a resume first?

 

[cleardirect]

Question, Nic,

Please explain your statement.

When you refer to a West pilot's job, are you saying that an East pilot is trying to move to PHX and take a position there, or are you saying that you deserve a higher position in the East and that the East pilots are stealing that from you?

You have made this statement many times......just trying to get a better handle on your position.

breeze

Here we get to the root of the east false premiss. This will be a combined company. It is not about east flying or west flying it will be about company flying.

did you guys worry about PIT or LGA or BOS flying when those bases closed? When the 190 got moved from CLT to PHL did you guys #### that the PHL guys were taking your flying?

You need to get over this just stay in PHX and that is all you ever had to look forward to. May 2005 changed everything that all of us had to look forward to.

 

[mrbreeze]

Here we get to the root of the east false premiss. This will be a combined company. It is not about east flying or west flying it will be about company flying.

did you guys worry about PIT or LGA or BOS flying when those bases closed? When the 190 got moved from CLT to PHL did you guys #### that the PHL guys were taking your flying?

You need to get over this just stay in PHX and that is all you ever had to look forward to. May 2005 changed everything that all of us had to look forward to.

OK, Clear,

I am asking you the same question. From your comment, it sounds like you believe that the East job that you are hoping for is where you feel that we are stealing your job. Is that, in fact, your position? Yes or no?

breeze

 

[cleardirect]

OK, Clear,

I am asking you the same question. From your comment, it sounds like you believe that the East job that you are hoping for is where you feel that we are stealing your job. Is that, in fact, your position? Yes or no?

breeze

No!

It is not an east job it is a company job. The company decides where that flying will go. Just like they decided that there will not be any more flying our of PIT. If the company decides to merge and close PHL because it is to close to NY. Would you be stealing an AA job?

 

[BoeingBoy]

OK, Clear,

Since you and others like Kero and PullUp apparently have no problem with making a west FO wait 5-10 years for the upgrade he/she was expecting in 2005/2006/2007 while east FO's get those west upgrade opportunities, is that the theft you're talking about?

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

No!

It is not an east job it is a company job. The company decides where that flying will go. Just like they decided that there will not be any more flying our of PIT. If the company decides to merge and close PHL because it is to close to NY. Would you be stealing an AA job?

It is not a "company" job.....we are not merged and the TA is not finalized yet. You are licking your chops, wanting to take advantage of the East pilots and accelerate your career advancement. After we are merged, then by all means, take what you can get...but the East pilots have much to say about the way you are trying to leap frog in the integration.

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

Since you and others like Kero and PullUp apparently have no problem with making a west FO wait 5-10 years for the upgrade he/she was expecting in 2005/2006/2007 while east FO's get those west upgrade opportunities, is that the theft you're talking about?

Jim

And how are those West FO's entitled to upgrades in 05/07? With the flawed NIC award? Or are you talking about the old AWA seniority movement?

We are not merged and integrated..... the East pilots are only capturing the attrition that has been on their flight plan since their DOH.

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

And how are those West FO's entitled to upgrades in 05/07? With the flawed NIC award? Or are you talking about the old AWA seniority movement? [/quote

By being senior FO's in 2005, yet you expect them to wait till east FO's who didn't have a job or know when they might have a job upgrade ahead of them. The east has been a large part of keeping ops separate and those FO's stagnating in the right seat for what? So east FO's who didn't have a job at the time of the merger can upgrade into west captain jobs? And you talk about the west stealing jobs...there really is no fixing stupid...

Jim

 

[crazystnic]

I think what he means is that the west has 400 ish retirements in the next 9 years and the east has 1700 ish retirements in the next 9 years and he is pissed that USAPA has not accepted the NIC award so he can get in on the easts 1700 retirements they brought to the merger instead of waiting for the 400 that the west brough to the merger. So therefore he is saying the east is stealing west jobs.

They talk a good line about this and that but in the end it is all about attrition. The "what if USAirways furloughs 1000 pilots" is just to deflect what the true issue is between our groups. If we furlough 1000 pilots when we only have around 4400 active pilots it is not going to matter. that is the end of USAirways.

Here is one that you wont get any west takers for. We use the NIC list but fence the retirements on each side. East Captain retires East F/O takes his seat, West captain retires west F/O takes his seat. Captain seats triggered by growth go per NIC list. If they were worried about east stealing seats they should be all over something like this.

I am positive we can pass NIC with no problems if the above attrition protection was put in place. Now we will see about 50 posts from west guys bashing me for even suggesting such a foul idea etc etc etc.

agree 100 Percent , we can wrap this up if we keep the attrition on each side.

 

[mrbreeze]

And how are those West FO's entitled to upgrades in 05/07? With the flawed NIC award? Or are you talking about the old AWA seniority movement? [/quote

By being senior FO's in 2005, yet you expect them to wait till east FO's who didn't have a job or know when they might have a job upgrade ahead of them. The east has been a large part of keeping ops separate and those FO's stagnating in the right seat for what? So east FO's who didn't have a job at the time of the merger can upgrade into west captain jobs? And you talk about the west stealing jobs...there really is no fixing stupid...

Jim

If you are trying to call me stupid...take a look in the mirror and see what it really looks like. Too bad it isn't painful. 😀

I understand that there is a problem with the lower end of the seniority integration, but that same problem exists in the upper end....and good ole St NIC screwed it all up. You can't fix one end without screwing the other end. NIC protects the lower end guys and DOH screws them.

What about FO's who have never been furloughed on the upper end, were in the left seat for a period of time, got bumped back to the right seat due to the company parking 101 jets, and just want to finish their careers with a few more years in the left seat......those guys are willing to lay it all on the line instead of having Clear or Nic step in ahead of them leaving them in the right seat till retirement. DOH protects these guys and NIC screws them.

That is why we need to renegotiate this mess.....it is full of holes and was that way from the beginning.

breeze

 

[PullUp]

How did that work out for you last time? Sending a resume first?

Never furloughed......yet. However, F/O's I flew with in 2001 that were furloughed are now Captains at Jetblue. So, in answer to your question, it worked out really well for them compared to what they could have come back to.
cheers.

 

[PullUp]

If US Air gets released into self help and imposes a decent nic. Inclusive contract, what is the USAPA plan then? They've always assumed the strike threat would cripple US Air...what if Parker needs a contract to get AA done, asks the NMB for release and is granted such. Probably need to trim a bunch of jobs anyway...why not take vollunteers?

The Industry isn't going to wait forever. When they need this wrapped up, they're going to.

What are you babbling about? The company will never impose any contract that anyone could deem 'decent'. More likely it'll be a hugely concessionary imposition. Think about what the AA guys are being asked to swallow and then cut the pay rates by 25-50%. And you guys on the west will cross any picket line, you've already said so. Why should I care about your concerns when you most certainly don't give a sh!t about mine?