US Pilots Labor Discussion

[PullUp]

You and Bob are idiots, we could have had an industry contract 5 years ago. The FA contract is industry standard and will pass.

The Kirby is/was industry std????

 

[CallawayGolf]

The Kirby is/was industry std????

A union with no unity has no ability to gain any improvements. The Kirby proposal is a far cry better than what USAPA could negotiate on its own with retaining any leverage at the negotiating table. Absent leverage, the ununified union has to resort to illegal job actions and taking out ads in national newspapers. USAPA is an epic failure except for one thing - delay of the inevitable. Had the Ninth not taken a pass on the merits of the DFR, then USAPA wouldn't even have that going for it. Bringing spit wads to a gun fight won't get you anything like an industry leading contract. Fix the unity problem with a dose of reality about the NIC, and you might just get something better than Kirby. Otherwise you take what what is offered or just stay where you are.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The Kirby is/was industry std????

Only if you believe the Kirby was the best the company would do at that time. Who was it that said "Hey, might as well shoot for the moon....nothing ventured, nothing gained." That applies to the company too.

Oh, that's right...it was you...

Jim

 

[luvn737s]

The Kirby is/was industry std????

USAPA supporters traded the possibility for achieving an industry standard contract for the quagmire they call representation. Still the best money you ever spent, right? More like the best money you'll NEVER spend.

It takes courage to vote for Ferguson/Koontz, but at least they hold the possibility of a payoff to reward that courage. Or you can help Hummel inflate the portable boogeyman.

 

[fifidriver]

The western division negotiators parroted the LOA 93 pay for the 330. They also get the same pay for the 757 and 321 pay as the 320. There is no good negotiating skill there, and they were not even in bankruptcy at that time when they did that.

Hey everybody! Claxon's back! Oh Yay!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Awww, his mommy gave him his Peewee PC back....

Jim

 

[nic4us]

The western division negotiators parroted the LOA 93 pay for the 330. They also get the same pay for the 757 and 321 pay as the 320. There is no good negotiating skill there, and they were not even in bankruptcy at that time when they did that.

For once you are correct!!!

AWA was not in bankruptcy when we negotiated the A330 pay. We where however buying a bankrupt company that was paying their A330 pilots bankruptcy wages.

See the dilemma??

 

[700UW]

How many times are you going to be wrong? US with Seabury and Associates raised the money for a merger, HP didnt have any money to buy anyone, it was a merger.

 

[nic4us]

I want to make a quick point...

It has been suggested that Move2CLT has been less active on these boards, lately, because he is in fact Koontz, and has to think about the up coming election, and how he comes across to the voters.

IMO, whether he is Koontz or not (which I believe he is), his out spoken, insulting attitude would cause any pilot to vote for a new hire Philly ramper, before casting a vote for Koontz.

breeze

Move2CLT=Koontz ????

No way, however, you should take your own advice.

A new hire PHL ramper would be a much better choice than any of the outrageously insulting scabs the east put on the ballot.

Take Bradford for instance. Complete easthole of massive proportion. Had the audacity to hire the union busting lawyer after being told by other lawyers that his scab plan is illegal, takes the entire pilot group on a 4 year multi-billion dollar wage loss scheme in the hopes of improving his position, opens the door for the criminals to control the union, then runs for vice-president of FPL (his only safe harbor) once he realizes he is getting the Nic.

Actually, insulting is an understatement, and ignorant is another understatement of any pilot stupid enough to vote for him.

 

[nic4us]

How many times are you going to be wrong? US with Seabury and Associates raised the money for a merger, HP didnt have any money to buy anyone, it was a merger.

I will never be wrong on this topic.

Lets go with your assertion that AWA was completely removed (complete fiction, but I am trying to humor you) from the process of raising the capital that funded the merger.

Once that capital was raised, it was all put into Barbell Aquisition. Correct? Are you following me this far?

Then where did Barbell go?

I will tell you. Barbell (i.e. the money) merged with and into America West Holdings Corp. So, AWHC had all the money and then BOUGHT USAirways in a reverse aquisition.

Don't believe me? That is no problem. Go ask the SEC, they will tell you the same exact story.

 

[nic4us]

How many times are you going to be wrong? US with Seabury and Associates raised the money for a merger, HP didnt have any money to buy anyone, it was a merger.

Oh, one more thing.

You got union experience right??

Ever consider running for an office at usapa? I hear they want to make a PHL ramper the president. I would think you would be a much better choice, why not throw your hat in the ring?

 

[700UW]

Educate yourself

 

[BoeingBoy]

Let me ask this, 700. All those outside investors except Air Wisconsin who provided DIP financing in exchange for a fee for departure contract, agreed to buy equity in the combined company, NOT the old US. IOW, the money wasn't available until after the merger. So where did the old US get the money to buy HP?

In addition, there were the owners of old US and HP. Who paid the owners of the old US? How much? Who paid the owners of HP? How much?

You concentrate on one little detail - who arranged the investments in the new company - and ignore everything else. Not one single investor gave money to old US except Air Wisconsin. You go on and on about one brush-stroke in a corner of the picture and thus never realize what it's a picture of. Even in the article (from the PIT paper - wonder whose side of the story they got) it was Lakefield that went to Parker practically begging for US to be bought...

Jim

 

[PullUp]

A union with no unity has no ability to gain any improvements. The Kirby proposal is a far cry better than what USAPA could negotiate on its own with retaining any leverage at the negotiating table. Absent leverage, the ununified union has to resort to illegal job actions and taking out ads in national newspapers. USAPA is an epic failure except for one thing - delay of the inevitable. Had the Ninth not taken a pass on the merits of the DFR, then USAPA wouldn't even have that going for it. Bringing spit wads to a gun fight won't get you anything like an industry leading contract. Fix the unity problem with a dose of reality about the NIC, and you might just get something better than Kirby. Otherwise you take what what is offered or just stay where you are.

Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda.
Pure speculative BS. Fix the S/L and the great fairy will rain down dollars on your head. Right.
Kirby was and is concessionary, and only a fool would call it "industry standard", then, now, or in the future.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda.
Pure speculative BS. Fix the S/L and the great fairy will rain down dollars on your head. Right.
Kirby was and is concessionary, and only a fool would call it "industry standard", then, now, or in the future.

I didn't say Kirby was industry standard and I don't think anyone else did either. My point was that absent a unified pilot group the Kirby is the best you will see unless the Company offers more to close this mess of a process out. If a better offer comes, it will be solely at the discretion of Management and not because of anything USAPA might do.