US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mrbreeze]

A quick quiz......I know you West boys are sharp enough to get this....

1....Who was the ALPA MEC chairman at USAir while we went through our 2 BK's? (and also gave everything away)

Answer......Bill Pollack


2......What was Bill Pollack's relationship with USAir management?

Answer.....He was given a position on the Board of Directors (and who knows what else)


3.......After most of the pilot group refused to even acknowledge Bill Pollack on the line after the merger and he returned to flying, and would not fly with him after the way he screwed us all, what is his new position with USAirways?

Answer......Assist. Chief Pilot in Philly.

Bottom line....he sold us out!

breeze

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Well, not that usapa is doing to well, to say the least, but Alpo sucks.

 

[mrbreeze]

Well, not that usapa is doing to well, to say the least, but Alpo sucks.

🙂 Agreed!

IMHO, it's a real shame that Cleary took control of our new union, while it was learning to walk. I am hopeful that USAPA does remain as our "at home" union, instead of a national conglomeration (sp?), but that we find better leadership as time goes by.

breeze

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

That said, I still think we'd be better off had we stayed Alpo, even with its faults. Usapa could be good in theory someday, but it still looks to me like quite a haul yet.

 

[mrbreeze]

That said, I still think we'd be better off had we stayed Alpo, even with its faults. Usapa could be good in theory someday, but it still looks to me like quite a haul yet.

You may be right.....but I have to say that we were so tired of the constant reoccurances of local ALPA and National ALPA in not supporting our pilot group, that ALPA will never be on this property again.....at least until we are retired.....if the East pilots have anything to say about it. 😉

That is where it is important for you guys to realize that it wasn't all about the NIC.....ALPA had already written their death certificate at USAir.

breeze

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

You may be right.....but I have to say that we were so tired of the constant reoccurances of local ALPA and National ALPA in not supporting our pilot group, that ALPA will never be on this property again.....at least until we are retired.....if the East pilots have anything to say about it. 😉

That is where it is important for you guys to realize that it wasn't all about the NIC.....ALPA had already written their death certificate at USAir.

breeze

I worked for a regional airline that was alpa represented, and when I hired on at AWA alpa was already on the property with contract 95. I grew up in a legacy household. I've seen the difference. Alpo's MO seemed to be to handle all those 'lesser' airlines in a most expeditious manner, while not expending to much. After all, those lesser airlines aren't Delta, aren't United blah blah blah. Pattern bargaining my ass. It was a good sounding theory.

 

[luvn737s]

It amazes me that many of you guys out West seem to know more about what went down between the East pilots and ALPA

It shouldn't amaze you, if you watched any of your fellow east pilot's behavior. You are very prredictable. I am amazed that a pilot group that has as many years of union activityas the east has, still makes so many rookie mistakes.

Sorry, the "it's _______ fault" has been played out. Grow up and move on.

Better yet, quit.

 

[mrbreeze]

It shouldn't amaze you, if you watched any of your fellow east pilot's behavior. You are very prredictable. I am amazed that a pilot group that has as many years of union activityas the east has, still makes so many rookie mistakes.

Sorry, the "it's _______ fault" has been played out. Grow up and move on.

Better yet, quit.

Yeah, I know how you are.....you have all the answers and don't need to listen, read, or learn anything.......as long as it furthers your agenda, you are not interested.

YOU ARE A BIG PART OF THE OVERALL PROBLEM!!!

breeze


SERIOUSLY! Luvin!

 

[N924PS]

That is where it is important for you guys to realize that it wasn't all about the NIC.....ALPA had already written their death certificate at USAir.

breeze

Had the Nicolau Award been more favorable to the East position, ALPA would still be the bargaining agent on this property, IMO.

There was never a movement with any traction to decertify ALPA as the bargaining agent until the Nicolau Award was rendered in 2007. Even though the pension debacle had occurred in 2003.

I'm looking forward to DFR II when Bradford is called to the stand to answer the question of why USAPA was formed.

 

[nevergiveup]

Had the Nicolau Award been more favorable to the East position, ALPA would still be the bargaining agent on this property, IMO.

There was never a movement with any traction to decertify ALPA as the bargaining agent until the Nicolau Award was rendered in 2007. Even though the pension debacle had occurred in 2003.

I'm looking forward to DFR II when Bradford is called to the stand to answer the question of why USAPA was formed.

There was back in 1989-1990, depending one's definition of traction.

 

[mrbreeze]

Had the Nicolau Award been more favorable to the East position, ALPA would still be the bargaining agent on this property, IMO.

There was never a movement with any traction to decertify ALPA as the bargaining agent until the Nicolau Award was rendered in 2007. Even though the pension debacle had occurred in 2003.

I'm looking forward to DFR II when Bradford is called to the stand to answer the question of why USAPA was formed.

I agree, the NIC was the pivotable point. ALPA had pissed off so many pilots that when the NIC came out, there was no doubt as to where things were going to go. Had NIC been more favorable, it could have been a different "guarded" trust in ALPA. They had their chance, but turned their backs on the East pilots, hoping to strengthen their own airline's bottom line with USAir liquidating. Mainly the control was in the hands of the Delta and United pilots at National headquarters. They blew it because we didn't "go away" and it just set the bar lower for the industry. Bad bet on their part.

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

No sir, I quoted you when you stated "would do". That's a whole lot different than what the company "could do".

Get a dictionary - would and could are synonyms, meaning capable of. As in "the barrel would hold 20 gallons" and "the barrel could hold 20 gallons"
or
"would have won the lottery if you had picked the right numbers" and "could have won the lottery if you had picked the right numbers."

F - English
F - Comprehension

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

I don't think anyone has said that USAir bought AWA, just that AWA did not buy USAir.....the money came from outsiders. Try to keep up, or maybe, quit trying to spin it for your warped fantasy.

Then why did the HP shareholders end up owning a big chunk of LCC? They didn't get cash for their shares, so nobody "bought" HP. The outside investors did exactly what that says - invested in LCC and became part owners, along with the HP shareholders. So I'll ask you since 700 got awfully quiet - how much of LCC did the owners of old US end up with?

You're not only in the midst of your spin cycle, but have an unbalanced load too...

Jim

 

[cactusboy53]

Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda.
Pure speculative BS. Fix the S/L and the great fairy will rain down dollars on your head. Right.
Kirby was and is concessionary, and only a fool would call it "industry standard", then, now, or in the future.

Just how many times MUST you be schooled? The Kirby proposal was (still is on the table), and remained ostensibly the AWA contract with a 3% increase in wages for the AWA pilots (an thus much more for easties).....FURTHER, IN COURT it was TESTIFIED that the end contract would most likely be the KP + 7-8% (for a TOTAL of 11% increase for AWA pilots). Just how is that (FOUR YEARS AGO SLICK) a CONCESSIONARY contract from what you NOW FLY under?? Do you need a calculator? This isn't even FUZZY MATH.

Now, I'm not saying that we would have ratified said agreement, BUT don't you think it's kind of STUPID to have thrown away all that $$$$$$ on a paper chase that has garnered only DELAY?

Coversely, USAPA is WAY past the promised contract w/i 90 days, six months, whatever. The NAC has two members (FULL FLIGHT PAY LOSS & AREN'T WE "PARKED") now that were BOTH on FURLOUGH at the time of the acquisition. The NAC is further AWAY from a contract NOW, than ALPA was in mid-2007!

You can't fix stupid.

 

[mrbreeze]

Then why did the HP shareholders end up owning a big chunk of LCC? They didn't get cash for their shares, so nobody "bought" HP. The outside investors did exactly what that says - invested in LCC and became part owners, along with the HP shareholders. So I'll ask you since 700 got awfully quiet - how much of LCC did the owners of old US end up with?

You're not only in the midst of your spin cycle, but have an unbalanced load too...

Jim

So, what, precisely, was the HP shareholder's stake in LCC? You say a large chunk....what exactly are the numbers, old wise one?

And when was your retire date, OVER?

breeze