US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mrbreeze]

yeah, something's amiss - it was an eastie. So it can't be true can it...

What are you hiding? Why not answer my questions?

Your retirement date and the exact, documented investment by HP shareholders?

Both BS...
breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

I do stand corrected......however, the point is that he was in a position to be influenced by the USAirways board, and I believe he sold us out, either due to his own agenda, or due to his ignorance. He DID NOT guard and protect the pilots on the USAir seniority list, period!

What is it the easties say...MAJORITY rules? One seat out of I believe a 9 member board. Wonder why he couldn't just order them around... Heck, breezy, tell me one instance of a pilot group having a seat on the BOD where it made a difference. Remember the UA ESOP? The employees owned a large chunk of the company and several seats on the BOD. How much difference did that make? None, zero, nada, zilch - they lost their stock in bankruptcy and made concessions...

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

WOW. Would you mind explaining just exactly HOW ALPA (legally) was to blame? Would you mind explaining just exactly how Nicolau should have been more "favorable" (legally, of course), and how the actual award strayed away from the tenets of the ALPA merger policy (legally, of course).

I guess we just can't trump your emotional "It's not FAIR" argument. I guess the courts will eventually tell the parties what is LEGALLY required (vs. what is fair). Sorry Breeze. Time is drawing nigh.....

I don't care what profession you are in or who you are, gaining 15 years in seniority is a windfall....against ALPA merger policy. PERIOD!

breeze

 

[cactusboy53]

With all due respect....where did this come from? And who is quoted for that?

If that is true, there is something amiss. If the author is blowing smoke up our asses, it is just a tool to create more chaos in the pilot ranks.

breeze

You know, we are pretty tired of doing YOUR research for you (over, and over, and over, and over again). Please refer to the Addington trial transcripts:

Page 1275 of the Addington trial transcripts by JACK STEPHAN:

Q: And in your other discussions with the company, had you received some informal indication that they might be able --might be willing to go up as high as 7 or 10 percent above the West rate?
A. Nothing in writing.

Crack a book college boy, or better yet....read the Nicolau transcripts, award, and ALL the other court documents. Educate yourself, the truth shall set you FREE.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Sure....about half....show me the documents....or is that your opinion?

It's public record breezy, look it up - oh, that's right...you only believe what you're spoon fed...

Noone has said that USAir shareholders put any money up, however, the money was invested by outside investers, not AWA.....that is the record.

The HP shareholders put something of value in just like the outside investors - if you don't believe it how about giving me 100 shares of Google since shares aren't worth anything. Those HP shareholders bought LCC just as much as the outside investors did. So you can't say that the outside investors bought anything without admitting that the owners of HP also bought US.

Surely you've heard of these clubs where members trade their abilities for stuff - a barter arrangement. A plumber may trade doing some plumbing repairs for 20 gallons of gas. Heck, you do it every time you strap on an airplane - you're bartering with the company - trading your ability for money/benefits. Something of value traded for something else of value. That's what happened in the merger. Both the outside investors and HP shareholders traded something of value that they had (money for the former and shares in HP for the latter) for something else of value (shares in LCC). The US shareholders had nothing of value to trade so got nothing.

Jim

 

[cactusboy53]

I don't care what profession you are in or who you are, gaining 15 years in seniority is a windfall....against ALPA merger policy. PERIOD!

breeze

Oh look, it's the emotional roller coaster ride. You know, I think Dr. Kubler-Ross is going to have to change her model for you kids. You keep recycling the stages of grief...DENIAL, ANGER, BARGAINING, DEPRESSION, DENIAL, ANGER, BARGAINING, DEPRESSION, DENIAL, ANGER, BARGAINING, DEPRESSION, DENIAL, ANGER, BARGAINING, DEPRESSION, DENIAL, ANGER, BARGAINING, DEPRESSION, DENIAL, ANGER, BARGAINING, DEPRESSION.....

BUT YOU CAN NEVER SEEM TO MAKE IT TO ACCEPTANCE. Just continued anger.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What are you hiding? Why not answer my questions?

Because I have no obligation to answer your questions - if you want the answers they're available. Here's a couple of hints, though - seniority lists/bid awards and the POR.

Your attitude is why every concession voted on passed. You don't want to do any research or make any effort, you just want to be fed answers. Then, if you don't like them you just call them opinion or spin. And where has that gotten you? The lowest paid airline pilots in the country. Way to go...

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

I don't care what profession you are in or who you are, gaining 15 years in seniority is a windfall....against ALPA merger policy. PERIOD!

Then you're wrong again but it should feel normal by now. ALPA's BOD said that the policy was followed and Nic said it wasn't a windfall.

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

You know, we are pretty tired of doing YOUR research for you (over, and over, and over, and over again). Please refer to the Addington trial transcripts:

Page 1275 of the Addington trial transcripts by JACK STEPHAN:

Q: And in your other discussions with the company, had you received some informal indication that they might be able --might be willing to go up as high as 7 or 10 percent above the West rate?
A. Nothing in writing.

Crack a book college boy, or better yet....read the Nicolau transcripts, award, and ALL the other court documents. Educate yourself, the truth shall set you FREE.

OK, I found it....it says "nothing in writing"

So what is your point? There is no factual evidence of a 7-10 % raise.

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

It's public record breezy, look it up - oh, that's right...you only believe what you're spoon fed...


The HP shareholders put something of value in just like the outside investors - if you don't believe it how about giving me 100 shares of Google since shares aren't worth anything. Those HP shareholders bought LCC just as much as the outside investors did. So you can't say that the outside investors bought anything without admitting that the owners of HP also bought US.

Surely you've heard of these clubs where members trade their abilities for stuff - a barter arrangement. A plumber may trade doing some plumbing repairs for 20 gallons of gas. Heck, you do it every time you strap on an airplane - you're bartering with the company - trading your ability for money/benefits. Something of value traded for something else of value. That's what happened in the merger. Both the outside investors and HP shareholders traded something of value that they had (money for the former and shares in HP for the latter) for something else of value (shares in LCC). The US shareholders had nothing of value to trade so got nothing.

Jim

HP shareholders did not have the horsepower to complete the merger. Outside investors made it happen.....AWA could not afford the price to make it happen.

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

Then you're wrong again but it should feel normal by now. ALPA's BOD said that the policy was followed and Nic said it wasn't a windfall.

Jim

Ok, that's your opinion....then I will go to my grave believing this is totally wrong and will never vote to ratify a contract.....because it is wrong, period.

Now, answer the questions that I asked, or you can just hide the truth like ALPA did. A lowlife snake type of existence.....but lower than ALPA because you also turned your back on your breathern in the East.....for some warped reason.

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

AWA could not afford the price to make it happen.

That comes up a lot among the east pilots. What was the price to make the merger happen then? As I've said before, except for Air Wisconsin's DIP financing which was spent as fast as it came in, no money came in before the corporate transaction was complete. The outside investors didn't buy US and HP separately then put them together. So what was "the price to make it happen?"

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

That comes up a lot among the east pilots. What was the price to make the merger happen then? As I've said before, except for Air Wisconsin's DIP financing which was spent as fast as it came in, no money came in before the corporate transaction was complete. So what was "the price to make it happen?"

Jim

Probably the same price that caused you to sell out, DH......your soul, maybe?

Argue all you want, you will not convince me that a 15 yr gain in seniority is not a windfall.

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

OK, I found it....it says "nothing in writing"

Wonder why "nothing in writing?" Oh, that's right - if it would have been in writing it would have been an official company proposal. So no, the company didn't make that proposal before east pulled out of negotiations. But you didn't read far enough (if you read at all and didn't just quote the previous post"

Q. Was there informal discussions, Sir, about the area in which the final contract could wind up?

A. There were informal discussions, yes.

Note that Stephans did NOT dispute the accuracy of the 7-10% above Kirby. He said only that it wasn't a written proposal by the company...

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

Wonder why "nothing in writing?" Oh, that's right - if it would have been in writing it would have been an official company proposal. So no, the company didn't make that proposal before east pulled out of negotiations. But you didn't read far enough (if you read at all and didn't just quote the previous post"

Q. Was there informal discussions, Sir, about the area in which the final contract could wind up?

A. There were informal discussions, yes.

Note that Stephans did NOT dispute the accuracy of the 7-10% above Kirby. He said only that it wasn't a written proposal by the company...

Jim

That is pretty weak.

There was a split in the North/South MECs at the time along with failure for ALPA National to support the USAirways line pilot. Lots of factions out there. Who do you believe? Who is to be trusted? As far as we knew, Stephen appeared to be trying to just stay in control while being screwed by the Board and ALPA National. It didn't work.....we all saw the whole thing as falling apart and voted for USAPA. There was no trust left at all....in any area. We couldn't believe any of them.

I would say, noone but your brother on the line could be trusted at this point. Obviously, you were not included in that group, and will never be there.

breeze