US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Let me tell you a story about attending a meeting where one of the concessionary contracts was being described to the membership by the lawyer (I think it was Dan Katz) who was part of the negotiations.
He presented the gruesome details and then recommended a vote for it while Bill Pollack and his team at the table sat nodding their heads.
Of course we all voted for it. It was a hell of a sales job, with the implied threat that our jobs depended on it passing.
Two weeks later I learned that the same lawyer was being paid his fee by the company. I also learned that his fee was dependent on whether the contract passed or not. If it didn't, then he'd get his standard hourly rate for his time. If it passed, he was to be paid $1 million dollars.
No wonder he 'sold' us on it.
All done under the auspices of ALPA, local and national.

Nope. You got parts of it right - the company did hire an "expert" (who admitted that he knew nothing about airline operations) to determine if there were any other cost savings that could be identified besides employee costs. His contract did have a provision for a "performance" bonus if the employees agreed to concessions. Not surprisingly, he determined that the company had cut costs as much as possible everywhere other than in employee costs. But it wasn't Katz. And you + 57% of the pilots bought it hook, line, and sinker...

Katz was the east MC's lawyer I believe.

Your (and many others) problem isn't that you went by the information in front of you. You accepted being spoon fed the information that the MEC wanted you to have. But that's nothing new and why every concession the pilots voted on was ratified. You all are like the kid who eats all the candy then blames his dog...

F for memory
F for taking responsibility for your own actions

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Question, Jim....

What was your retirement date, just curious.

What difference does it make breezy?

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

.FURTHER, IN COURT it was TESTIFIED that the end contract would most likely be the KP + 7-8% (for a TOTAL of 11% increase for AWA pilots).

With all due respect....where did this come from? And who is quoted for that?

If that is true, there is something amiss. If the author is blowing smoke up our asses, it is just a tool to create more chaos in the pilot ranks.

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

It amazes me that many of you guys out West seem to know more about what went down between the East pilots and ALPA......as if you were there.

YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE A CLUE! You just want to spin it all and make it fit your fantasy.

Heck breezy, you, pullup, and the rest were there and can't get it right so spin it to fit your fantasy...I bet at least half the east posters voted for every concession but now it's all ALPA's fault. Like the kid who didn't do his homework claiming that the dog ate it...
Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

What difference does it make breezy?

Jim

I am just trying to understand your attitude. Did you retire before BK1, BK2, or before the merger....before the NIC, etc...?

I might be more agreeable to your attitude if I understood why you hate the East pilots group so much. Not trying to be aggressive here, just trying to understand.

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

Heck breezy, you, pullup, and the rest were there and can't get it right so spin it to fit your fantasy...I bet at least half the east posters voted for every concession but now it's all ALPA's fault. Like the kid who didn't do his homework claiming that the dog ate it...
Jim

Your bet would be wrong....thus we have USAPA

 

[BoeingBoy]

2......What was Bill Pollack's relationship with USAir management?

Answer.....He was given a position on the Board of Directors (and who knows what else)

Spin, spin, spin...

A seat on the board was negotiated as part of one of the concessions, not "given" to Pollack. I believe that one or two of the other unions negotiated the same.

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

Answer the question, please......exactly how much was the "big chunk" that the HP shareholders had at merger time?

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

Yeah, I know how you are.....you have all the answers and don't need to listen, read, or learn anything.......as long as it furthers your agenda, you are not interested.

That describes way too many of the east pilots perfectly. Just look at all the concessions you guys ratified and you still haven't learned anything...

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

Spin, spin, spin...

A seat on the board was negotiated as part of one of the concessions, not "given" to Pollack. I believe that one or two of the other unions negotiated the same.

Jim

I do stand corrected......however, the point is that he was in a position to be influenced by the USAirways board, and I believe he sold us out, either due to his own agenda, or due to his ignorance. He DID NOT guard and protect the pilots on the USAir seniority list, period!

breeze

 

[cactusboy53]

I agree, the NIC was the pivotable point. ALPA had pissed off so many pilots that when the NIC came out, there was no doubt as to where things were going to go. Had NIC been more favorable, it could have been a different "guarded" trust in ALPA. They had their chance, but turned their backs on the East pilots, hoping to strengthen their own airline's bottom line with USAir liquidating. Mainly the control was in the hands of the Delta and United pilots at National headquarters. They blew it because we didn't "go away" and it just set the bar lower for the industry. Bad bet on their part.

breeze

WOW. Would you mind explaining just exactly HOW ALPA (legally) was to blame? Would you mind explaining just exactly how Nicolau should have been more "favorable" (legally, of course), and how the actual award strayed away from the tenets of the ALPA merger policy (legally, of course).

I guess we just can't trump your emotional "It's not FAIR" argument. I guess the courts will eventually tell the parties what is LEGALLY required (vs. what is fair). Sorry Breeze. Time is drawing nigh.....

 

[BoeingBoy]

So, what, precisely, was the HP shareholder's stake in LCC? You say a large chunk....what exactly are the numbers, old wise one?

About half. What was the US shareholder's stake in LCC old spinner of facts?

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

Sure....about half....show me the documents....or is that your opinion? Noone has said that USAir shareholders put any money up, however, the money was invested by outside investers, not AWA.....that is the record.

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

There was back in 1989-1990, depending one's definition of traction.

I certainly hope you're kidding. Back then the "north" was getting everything it wanted in the PSA/PI mergers and bragged about how great the contract was.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

If that is true, there is something amiss. If the author is blowing smoke up our asses, it is just a tool to create more chaos in the pilot ranks.

yeah, something's amiss - it was an eastie. So it can't be true can it...