US Pilots Labor Discussion

[fifidriver]

That's just freakin' ridiculous. If you don't want Nic, why would you vote for the guys that will definitely, 100%, use every ounce of their energy to implement it?
I've read the recall theory, too. Equally ridiculous.
Nobody I've talked to including third listers is voting for the west slate.
But, all will be revealed in another week.
Cheers.

I'm just curious. Any "third listers" on here? How are you voting, and why? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Res Judicata]

That's just freakin' ridiculous. If you don't want Nic, why would you vote for the guys that will definitely, 100%, use every ounce of their energy to implement it?
I've read the recall theory, too. Equally ridiculous.
Nobody I've talked to including third listers is voting for the west slate.
But, all will be revealed in another week.
Cheers.

do you HONESTLY believe you're ever going to see a DOH contract? Is evading the Nic award worth wasting the rest of your career on LOA93? You must realize by now that the West pilot group isn't going to move an inch and we're sure as hell not going away.

 

[RSVP767]

What did 17 years LOS get you in the east just prior to the merger?

17 years got me 767 reserve F/O. 12 years got me A320 reserve Captain.

 

[PullUp]

do you HONESTLY believe you're ever going to see a DOH contract? Is evading the Nic award worth wasting the rest of your career on LOA93? You must realize by now that the West pilot group isn't going to move an inch and we're sure as hell not going away.

I believe what I believed when I voted for USAPA vs. ALPA. A vote for ALPA then guaranteed the Nic and a permanent degradation to my career that was/is unrecoverable. A vote for USAPA provided a .00001% chance that Nic would not be implemented.
I believe now that a vote for the west ticket in the USAPA election also guarantees a Nic cramdown. Hummel & Co. gets my vote.
Sorry guys, but a vote for the west slate does not provide any tangible gains for an eastie, therefore has no value.
Everyone must answer the "what's in it for me?" question.
Cheers.

 

[Metroyet]

I believe what I believed when I voted for USAPA vs. ALPA. A vote for ALPA then guaranteed the Nic and a permanent degradation to my career that was/is unrecoverable. A vote for USAPA provided a .00001% chance that Nic would not be implemented.
I believe now that a vote for the west ticket in the USAPA election also guarantees a Nic cramdown. Hummel & Co. gets my vote.
Sorry guys, but a vote for the west slate does not provide any tangible gains for an eastie, therefore has no value.
Everyone must answer the "what's in it for me?" question.
Cheers.

How do you not understand that the VOTE FOR USAPA is what guaranteed you the Nic. ALPA was trying to protect you from yourselves...but you knew better. Hasn't your career been permanently degradaded by your own self inflicted wounds? I'd say forfeiting a Billion dollars in just W2 wages is a little degradation. Hummel is not going to deliver one single benefit to you. Nobody is going to out smart the LAW and the RIGHTS of the West class.

 

[PullUp]

How do you not understand that the VOTE FOR USAPA is what guaranteed you the Nic. ALPA was trying to protect you from yourselves...but you knew better. Hasn't your career been permanently degradaded by your own self inflicted wounds? I'd say forfeiting a Billion dollars in just W2 wages is a little degradation. Hummel is not going to deliver one single benefit to you. Nobody is going to out smart the LAW and the RIGHTS of the West class.

East and west are still separate. No, my career would be permanently degraded by the Nic list. The longer I'm not subjected to it, the better.
Seniority is everything. Wages come and go, we've seen that movie already.
Cheers.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

East and west are still separate.

You could have, but did not choose to add that both lists are still DOH. and, likely, will remain, DOH.

The 3% grievance is outside of LOA 93 (contrary to miss 100% loser's assertions), thank goodness and should help out with an almost 10% raise soon.

 

[Zone5]

Typical east answer. Never an east pilots fault. It took 17 years of service just to be the bottom guy. At any other airline that is a new hire. Yes a stagnant career is your fault. You have a choice. LEAVE!. If management is not running the company to your satisfaction, LEAVE. If your career stagnates or after 17 years you get furloughed. Don't come back. Find something else to do.

Accept the responsibility of your own career.

Screw you youngster! That's easy for you to say. Fact of the matter is, it didn't take me 17 years to be a junior F/O. At 15 years I was a fairly senior F/O making about $150,000.00 dollars a year as a 767 F/O. I won't belabor the reasons why that all went away, or maybe I should because you probably weren't even around when it all hit the fan. The fact of the matter is that at the age of 54, I woke up to find myself barely holding on to a job with this piece of crap airline. Quit and go find another job, for us old guys, that was not and still is not an option. Better yet, why don't you take your young ass down to the next airline job fair and offer them your services for the next 25 years or so, I and many others don't have that option!

I tell you what I do consider an option, full pay to the last day (as little as it may have turned out to be, and no I did not vote for LOA93) and I will not vote to have that nice young man ahead of me on the NIC step in to my job while still on probation as a new hire, who will be here for 22 YEARS after I am gone, if I manage to stay till 65.

You guys can piss and moan all you want but here is something you can take to the bank, NOTHING good ever lasts at USEless Airways, except the pain. Get used to it and don't hold your breath waiting for any kind of a decent contract out of Team Tempe, regardless of how this SLI mess eventually works out.

Have a nice day.

seajay

 

[BoeingBoy]

Seniority is everything. Wages come and go, we've seen that movie already.

And thus ends the fantasy that seniority is negotiable....

You are right, though - seniority is everything in this industry. Unfortunately for the east, however, seniority and DOH/LOS don't have a linear relationship. If anyone knows that it should be the east...

Jim

 

[Zone5]

do you HONESTLY believe you're ever going to see a DOH contract? Is evading the Nic award worth wasting the rest of your career on LOA93? You must realize by now that the West pilot group isn't going to move an inch and we're sure as hell not going away.

No. Yes. So what.

seajay

 

[EastCheats]

How do you not understand that the VOTE FOR USAPA is what guaranteed you the Nic. ALPA was trying to protect you from yourselves...but you knew better. Hasn't your career been permanently degradaded by your own self inflicted wounds? I'd say forfeiting a Billion dollars in just W2 wages is a little degradation. Hummel is not going to deliver one single benefit to you. Nobody is going to out smart the LAW and the RIGHTS of the West class.

They will get the Nic either way. Hummel or Ferguson. When this gets to the Supreme Court I think justices Roberts, Scalia, Thomas, Alito or Kennedy will give the 9th the smack-down they deserve. They also have to worry about another desert judge. Their scemes will be exposed and hopefully there will be damages awarded. Someone else will be paying for my titanium ring I wear on my middle finger.

 

[Zone5]

They will get the Nic either way. Hummel or Ferguson. When this gets to the Supreme Court I think justices Roberts, Scalia, Thomas, Alito or Kennedy will give the 9th the smack-down they deserve. They also have to worry about another desert judge. Their scemes will be exposed and hopefully there will be damages awarded. Someone else will be paying for my titanium ring I wear on my middle finger.

Tell you what, why don't you go stand in the corner and hold your breath till that little fantasy plays out for you!

seajay

 

[Ames]

Screw you youngster! That's easy for you to say. Fact of the matter is, it didn't take me 17 years to be a junior F/O. At 15 years I was a fairly senior F/O making about $150,000.00 dollars a year as a 767 F/O. I won't belabor the reasons why that all went away, or maybe I should because you probably weren't even around when it all hit the fan. The fact of the matter is that at the age of 54, I woke up to find myself barely holding on to a job with this piece of crap airline.

seajay

There you have it. Clear is right. You are making excuses. If things were as you described (and I believe they were) you were a fool not to seek changes. I am now 54 and thoroughly sick of things as they are. Seeking my own changes (up to and including applying to medical school)

Don't hide behind your age, quit whining.

 

[cactusboy53]

That's the problem. Nic did something so messed up, neither side can believe it. He. Should of slotted and took into account east attrition and Los. If he did that he could of slotted in awa guys from the top. The top 518 are gone in short order anyway,

Bottom line nic got it so f Ed up we are still fighting this 7 years later.

And you guys aren't even being honest as you try to rationalize why the nic was ok and you didn't want to talk about fixes to it,

But in the next breath want to complain about how long this is taking.

This election will be a vote on the nic and the path we have taken, and hummell will be the guy to fight the nic.

Not true. We believe it just fine. There are no fixes. There is no other middle ground, because the Nicolau Seniority List IS THE MIDDLE GROUND. Arbitrator Nicolau explained in detail how he came up with his decision. I don't have to agree with all tenets of the final & binding arbitration, but I (as a member of the former CBA) agreed to the process and the outcome of said process. PERIOD.

The election will be a vote on moving forward with the Nicolau Seniority List or FURTHER DELAY, LOSS OF MORE $$ & TIME OFF and then moving forward with the the Nicolau Seniority List. You have made it PAINFULLY clear which path you are interested in (DELAY AT ANY AND ALL COSTS). I would say it is a safe bet that you were furloughed or extremely junior employed FO at the time of the merger.

There's no crying in baseball ..........(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPqYnC-SW5w)....., and there are NO "do-over's" in Arbitration.

 

[Metroyet]

You could have, but did not choose to add that both lists are still DOH. and, likely, will remain, DOH.

The 3% grievance is outside of LOA 93 (contrary to miss 100% loser's assertions), thank goodness and should help out with an almost 10% raise soon.

A 10% raise "soon" huh? Is that the latest false hope? as per usual...good luck