US Pilots Labor Discussion

[fodase]

Names are Named and the truth is much worse than the east feared:

http://www.fergusonforpresident.com/payrates.html

 

[767one]

You lost me. I'm sure the east has a few scabs on it's side. We have a few over here. I'm not one. If someones a scab, they're a scab. I can think of a few other words for them, but won't post them.

Bean

I'll be a bit more specific. Some posters on this forum refer to all east usapa members as scabs. I think Ferguson and or Koontz might be one of those posters. Is there any possibility that this is true?

 

[luvn737s]

I'll be a bit more specific. Some posters on this forum refer to all east usapa members as scabs. I think Ferguson and or Koontz might be one of those posters. Is there any possibility that this is true?

I would be very surprised if guys who have to run a campaign and fly a line and in one case represent pilots, have any leftover time to sit on a message board with 20 posters arguing among themselves. If I were them, I wouldn't spend my precious free time that way.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I'll be a bit more specific. Some posters on this forum refer to all east usapa members as scabs. I think Ferguson and or Koontz might be one of those posters. Is there any possibility that this is true?

Here's a thought.

When does the so called "East" cave in and accept the Nicolau award?

Having read this forum on a near daily basis it occurred to me that for seven years now through legal maneuvering The East pilots have maintained their seniority basically with no chance of an increase in pay.

Based upon my understanding the Nic Award will be accepted some day either voluntarily or not. The East has been "pushing" this around for 7 yrs now with likely another 2-3 years before the courts force the issue. This would be a nearly 10 year saga which would mean a great many would have retired and be off the seniority list as a result. If my assessment is correct then USAPA will have won in a way because they got their senior people to retirement without much financial upheaval.

 

[luvn737s]

You mean fighter pilots don't REALLY wrap themselves in towels and head for the locker room and shower after the big dogfight? I thought that stuff was what made the movie authentic Navy!

Don't set Zone 5 off! He knows that was after a sand volleyball game, NOT a dogfight!

Hey maybe that's the way to solve the integration issue - a sand volleyball game winner take all. But tell Parella to cover up. A crocheted bikini just ain't makin' it!

 

[luvn737s]

Though it may seem difficult for you to understand, though someday you might, if DOH with C&Rs doesn't work for you and the NIC doesn't work for me, I vote to maintain Status Quo!

That's an argument you can make during negotiations, not after an arbitration is awarded.

 

[PullUp]

Names are Named and the truth is much worse than the east feared:

http://www.fergusonforpresident.com/payrates.html

That's a great way to campaign, Fergie. Beat the easties over the head with what they already know. B-O-R-I-N-G. My eyes glazed over after the first sentence.
Had to check myself for a pulse after the first paragraph.
Then the same old mantra, "Eat the nic, and you'll be rewarded with a shiny new contract."
Quote from Fergies website: "We are offering a no-nonsense, straight forward solution to our problem. As your next president and vice-president, we will implement the arbitration award to pursue an industry-leading contract."
Really? Do you think we just fell off of the turnip truck yesterday?
Thanks but no thanks.
WIIFM (What's in it for me?)

 

[BoeingBoy]

Really? Do you think we just fell off of the turnip truck yesterday?

Nope - you fell off the turnip truck about 5.5 years ago when you bought the Seham/Bradford theory. Been swallowing it ever since.

WIIFM (What's in it for me?)

And that is the irony underlying it all. You'll use whoever is available to achieve what YOU want. The MDA pilots? Forgotten before the MDA suit and they'll be forgotten again after the MDA suit. New hires? Those guys please, please, please vote against a Nic inclusive contract so PullUp can get what he wants and leave them with the mess to clean up. Don't worry about what it's gonna cost to get PullUp what he wants, no price is too great for you to pay to get PullUp what HE wants. Don't worry - he'll respect you in the morning then put the check in the mail...

Jim

 

[cactusboy53]

I'll be a bit more specific. Some posters on this forum refer to all east usapa members as scabs. I think Ferguson and or Koontz might be one of those posters. Is there any possibility that this is true?

Here, let me help you with that: I know both gentlemen. Absolutely NO possibility that accusation is true. Ferguson hasn't the time or inclination to spend time on these boards in a battle of wits. The one that you claim is Koontz IS NOT (an no, I do not know who Move2CLT is, but he sure is popular!). While Jeff may spend time here, I can assure you he is sharp enough to not waste time calling you (or others) names.

Here's what I think (IMHO):

1. I think you are so wrapped up with hate and animosity that you are scrambling to find a way for others to NOT vote for Ferguson/Koontz.
2. I think that no matter how much fact of law is used in argument, USAPA's koolaide will always keep your blinders on.
3. I think that regardless of the lessons that you were taught as a child (@ home & in Sunday School), you refuse to be held at your word (because changing your name always takes away any responsibility).
4. I think that you have deemed this some sort of "holy war" and as such, all of your (USAPA's) actions are excusable.
5. I think that when the Nicolau Seniority list is implemented, you still won't get it.
6. I think you and those of your ilk are so angry, you have simply run out of victims to try and force your way on.
7. I think if we merge with American, you may finally get what final & binding arbitration is and why it can never be overturned.

CB...But you can call me Dave B)

 

[Metroyet]

Here's a thought.

When does the so called "East" cave in and accept the Nicolau award?

Having read this forum on a near daily basis it occurred to me that for seven years now through legal maneuvering The East pilots have maintained their seniority basically with no chance of an increase in pay.

Based upon my understanding the Nic Award will be accepted some day either voluntarily or not. The East has been "pushing" this around for 7 yrs now with likely another 2-3 years before the courts force the issue. This would be a nearly 10 year saga which would mean a great many would have retired and be off the seniority list as a result. If my assessment is correct then USAPA will have won in a way because they got their senior people to retirement without much financial upheaval.

Wait till the bump and flush forced on the company via the next step. Damages.

 

[KTM300]

Names are Named and the truth is much worse than the east feared:

http://www.fergusonforpresident.com/payrates.html

Well...It appears you are either bragging or trying to use some convoluted marketing strategy.

The way I see it...You all seem to be doing just fine on the backs of the East operation that is keeping your happy keister employed. So I don't have a problem with separate ops. and neither should you!

 

[BoeingBoy]

So I don't have a problem with separate ops. and neither should you!

The other Bobsey twin joins in with another "No price is to great for everyone to pay as long as I get what I want" argument.

YOU may not have a problem, but a lot of those who could be making more, not having to commute cross country, whatever, may find the price of getting YOU what YOU want is too high...

Jim

 

[cactusboy53]

So you're not easily impressed! Doesn't surprise me, after all, you're the one who took the job with America West! Kind of reminds me of the three biggest lies in Naval Aviation; The checks in the mail, I promise to use a condom and I could have flown fighters but I chose P-3's instead. Right!

Keep being impressed with your miserable lot in life, too bad you turned down that job with a real airline.

seajay

Seajay, based on previous posts and your avatar you apparently held an officer position in one of our military branches. The AWA pilot group is thick with former and current members of our US Armed forces (THANK YOU ALL!). Why would accepting employment at America West Airlines make any one of us a lesser person? Lesser of an aviator?

Finally, I found the following (Commissioned Officer Creed):

I will give to the selfless performance of my duty and my mission the best that effort, thought, and dedication can provide. To this end, I will not only seek continually to improve my knowledge and practice of my profession, but also I will exercise the authority entrusted to me by the President and the Congress with fairness, justice, patience, and restraint, respecting the dignity and human rights of others and devoting myself to the welfare of those place under my command. In justifying and fulfilling the trust placed in me, I will conduct my private life as well as my public service so as to be free both from impropriety and the appearance of impropriety, acting with candor and integrity to earn the unquestioning trust of my fellow soldiers -- juniors, senior, and associates -- and employing my rank and position not to serve myself but to serve my country and my unit. By practicing physical and moral courage I will endeavor to inspire these qualities in other by my example. In all my actions I will put loyalty to the highest moral principles and the United States of America above loyalty to organizations, persons, and my personal interest.

Regardless of what you drive (C130, P3, Warthog, Globemaster, Eagle, Falcon, etc.), trying to take away from one part of this group a legal and binding seniority arbitration in the attempt to salvage what remains of one's perceived career does NOT meet the definition of "acting with candor and integrity..".

USAPA and the USAPian faithful have taken this down the path we are on. The courts will finish up what should have been just a large speed bump in 2007. Telling me (or any other AWA pilot) that they are scum because we took a job with AWA is completely inappropriate.

We (AWA) pilots have been sued (RICO), persecuted (False ID Theft), badgered, and made to pay our dirt-bag union dues (that they in turn use to fund the DOH paper chase).

 

[nic4us]

Wait till the bump and flush forced on the company via the next step. Damages.

Are you telling me that all these graphs and statistical data that AOL has compiled and published has a purpose other than just to convince the non-hardline east pilots of what they are missing out on??

Come to think of it, all one would have to do is plug in a dollar number (say Kirby plus 5%) an voila, you have a damages amount the company owes the West since they violated the TA in 2008.

That number would be huge by now, and even the 9th noted that damage to the West.

 

[Move2CLT]

Here, let me help you with that: I know both gentlemen. Absolutely NO possibility that accusation is true. Ferguson hasn't the time or inclination to spend time on these boards in a battle of wits. The one that you claim is Koontz IS NOT (an no, I do not know who Move2CLT is, but he sure is popular!). While Jeff may spend time here, I can assure you he is sharp enough to not waste time calling you (or others) names.

Here's what I think (IMHO):

1. I think you are so wrapped up with hate and animosity that you are scrambling to find a way for others to NOT vote for Ferguson/Koontz.
2. I think that no matter how much fact of law is used in argument, USAPA's koolaide will always keep your blinders on.
3. I think that regardless of the lessons that you were taught as a child (@ home & in Sunday School), you refuse to be held at your word (because changing your name always takes away any responsibility).
4. I think that you have deemed this some sort of "holy war" and as such, all of your (USAPA's) actions are excusable.
5. I think that when the Nicolau Seniority list is implemented, you still won't get it.
6. I think you and those of your ilk are so angry, you have simply run out of victims to try and force your way on.
7. I think if we merge with American, you may finally get what final & binding arbitration is and why it can never be overturned.

CB...But you can call me Dave B)

Koontz, Parker, Cleary. Kirby, Tempe shill, ALPA, etc -

it's their defense mechanism kicking in. When youre so right all the time, the east posters seek shelter by discrediting my posts as not being from a pilot. That, not working, they use me to discredit others.

Breeze is a great example of that. Small minded, he resorted to name calling and then got banned.