US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

It's a Charlotte thing, they can't help it. They have this place called Bojangles, there was a line so long with hats and four stripes I could not see the menu. Gomers love the place, they eat something called dirty rice.

That explains it. It's not in the water.

Good. If they keep eating that stuff, we just may inherit this airline alot sooner than I thought.

Keep that extra deep fried chicken coming!!

 

[EastCheats]

Good. If they keep eating that stuff, we just may inherit this airline alot sooner than I thought.

Keep that extra deep fried chicken coming!!

And fried green tomatoes, okra,collard greens and whatever gomers eat. Nio wonder Southerners die early. They eat crap.

 

[EastCheats]

Don't elect a Gomer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=046haFi-0ww

 

[Beancounter]

Pilots should click here to review an interesting pay chart. Then click over the four pay stubs in between the two bar graphs.

Very good visual.

Problem is: They don't want fair, they won't even be happy with a small win. They want to $%^!ing staple the west pilot group under theirs aka DOH/LOS.

 

[Move2CLT]

As one who long ago surrendered any farcical notion that further "conversation" with most all such westies as post here was of the slightest value, and anything other than an unhealthy indulgence in some morbid fascination, as to just how intellectually and spiritually deficient some hominids can be and yet operate some kind of aircraft, well ; I'm only popping in to correct the "Zone 5 = EastUS". I don't personally know Zone5, but, unlike such charming little princesses as yourself, that somehow see some perverse need to disparage Tomcat drivers, will only note that I've a great deal of respect for those that opted for cats/traps, and willingly endured the personal sacrifices attendant to life on "Bird Farms", my father having been career USN. Over time; he lost enough friends via carrier ops to have rather strongly suggested that I go USAF...unsinkable and immobile "ship"/air conditioned hooches/cold beer upon mission completion/even some golf courses/the actual presence of women/etc. That places me in the "eunuch in a hook shop" status where commenting on carrier flying is concerned.

Speaking of "eunuch in a hook shop" status; it's wryly amusing to note that the vast majority of you west folk posting here had/have projected associations, as the stated case with Beancounter, "Well I guess the F-15 and A10 pilots in my AWA new hire class just weren't as cool as a Navy pilot", or can point to having an ex TBird within the AWA ranks, as nic4us has done long ago...or otherwise find ways to esteem yourselves, evidently by way of AWA association only, as somehow equal in experience and accomplishments to any/all others.

From your fine young emissary/diplomat extraordinaire EastCheats, we have the following display of typically disrespectful, infantile arrogance: "I don't have the time to stroke your ego, about the Kitty Hawk, lunar landings or whatever. I got an earful from your Hudson heroes at the Addington trial. I'm not impressed. Go find someone who is. Try the mirror" Whew!...Little to be said there....that's almost a clinical case study of Arrested Development Syndrome in and of it's self. Your fine people of the "..and we hate you guys"/Move2CLT/et al ilk...I'd feel properly best left in the kind, caring hands of an entire team of psychiatrists.

Oh well. One must properly suppose that such self indulgent fantasies, as are so frequently spewed forth by the majority of west posters hereabouts, are required mental mechanisms in order to support the assertions that, say 17 more years than one's self of even just plain airline ops should afford no person the very slightest modicum of respect. In fact; said additional years flown is apparently subject only to scorn, as all should have magically known the distant future, and opted for other employment long ago. Interestingly enough though....the same west posters espousing such contempt clearly fail to consider their own current situation. They are evidently staying with AWA/"US" and just plain hoping for better things in the future......

No matter really...the sorry state of affairs "is what it is", and is likely to remain so for some time. My position hasn't changed at all. The only promise I've made to the board readers is that I'll never vote in favor of anything containing the nic....period. That is not subject to change. Doing such would be against all principled thought, and I'm not about to sell out fine folks I've shared the airline's or otherwise sky with, in order to have such as the charming west youngsters as post here jump over them, just because St. Nic said it's just ok for such rank, rancid opportunism to even be conceived of.

I hold no personal grudge against the west as a group, and have indeed had some very enjoyable conversations with a number of "westies". Having said that....I'm completely content with the thought of flying my remaining airline days out without ever needing to tolerate the presence of utterly clueless, entirely disrespectful, and downright infantile sufferers of narcissistic personality disorder, as are most often, so flagrantly evidenced by the bulk of west posters here, in any working cockpit. Jumpseaters excepted. Apologies and noted exceptions to lynyrdskynyrd and any/all other, actual adults out west.

Life's to be lived and enjoyed people. It's highly unlikely that anyone's deeply rooted opinions will in any way be altered by any/all internet correspondence here.

Best to All


"Lord what fools these mortals be"....no exclusions for myself in that tag 😉

STFU.

 

[EastUS1]

So pontificates the arrogant prat.

Who in truth probably can fly really fast in the clear, but must have his hand held on instrument approaches to mins.

Indeed. I'll always have nightmares over just that one horrible night......The real trick is to avoid the fish.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxgkrpY_la4&feature=related

 

[crazystnic]

Pilots should click here to review an interesting pay chart. Then click over the four pay stubs in between the two bar graphs.

We already know its only about the money for you

 

[cleardirect]

Mike Cleary did what he does best. Filed a law suit without telling the BPR or the members. AGAIN!!!! So much for the line pilot union you guys all say you wanted. Dictatorship at it's finest.

For all of you Cleary/ usapa supporters does it make any sense to sue a lawyer. The same lawyer that has kept your dream of no nic alive? Is it responsible to spend $300,000.00 to recover $100,000.00? Do you see a pattern here? Have a problem sue someone. Trouble is it is not Cleary's money, it is ours.

Anyone want to defend this joker? He has been the east savior for 4 years so you say. You east guys were singing his high praises a short time ago. Still think he is the best leader in a generation? Is this the kind of leadership that you guy are used to and allow? It explains a lot about why you are in the position you are in.

How long before Seham files a counter suit? If all you wanted to do was fight in court why start a new union? Just take up a collection and go crazy. Looks like we found the real reason the east left ALPA. National would not let you run around suing people at the drop of a hat for personal reasons.

The irony is thick here. The same lawyer that started out suing the west for RICO has now been sued by that same union. Karma really is a ####.

 

[PullUp]

We already know its only about the money for you

Is that a bad thing? More is better. It's all about your W2, now that pensions no longer exist. Necessary items like fuel and food require more dollars today than yesterday.
The hurdle in logic is that eating the Nic via voting for Fergie will magically result in more $$. I disagree. Dougie will not negotiate, and will not pay.
The only way to get a better contract is during a merger situation where management wants the pilots cooperation.
So, Fergie doesn't have the magic. And, for that matter, neither does Hummel. Dougie the wizard has the magic, and won't give it up unless he absolutely has to.
Cheers.

 

[PullUp]

Pilots should click here to review an interesting pay chart. Then click over the four pay stubs in between the two bar graphs.

Thanks for pointing out the pay advantage the westies have enjoyed since we 'merged'. Thanks for reminding all of us on the east how the west did not support parity and how that has affected each of us.
Thanks for illustrating that the west has not been damaged at all during this impasse, but instead has profited by it. And thanks for showing how Dougie & Scooter are squeaking out a profit on the backs of labor.
Oh, BTW, the chart is worthless for trying to get anyone from the east to vote for Fergie & Co.
Good effort, though.
Keep trying.
Cheers.

 

[cleardirect]

We already know its only about the money for you

It is all about the fourth stripe for you. Until you get that fourth stripe. Then it will be all about the money.

 

[nic4us]

Mike Cleary did what he does best. Filed a law suit without telling the BPR or the members. AGAIN!!!! So much for the line pilot union you guys all say you wanted. Dictatorship at it's finest.

For all of you Cleary/ usapa supporters does it make any sense to sue a lawyer. The same lawyer that has kept your dream of no nic alive? Is it responsible to spend $300,000.00 to recover $100,000.00? Do you see a pattern here? Have a problem sue someone. Trouble is it is not Cleary's money, it is ours.

Anyone want to defend this joker? He has been the east savior for 4 years so you say. You east guys were singing his high praises a short time ago. Still think he is the best leader in a generation? Is this the kind of leadership that you guy are used to and allow? It explains a lot about why you are in the position you are in.

How long before Seham files a counter suit? If all you wanted to do was fight in court why start a new union? Just take up a collection and go crazy. Looks like we found the real reason the east left ALPA. National would not let you run around suing people at the drop of a hat for personal reasons.

The irony is thick here. The same lawyer that started out suing the west for RICO has now been sued by that same union. Karma really is a ####.

Really?? Where is the link??

This I got to read.

Seeham will hand usapa its ass on a platter, and take the scabs for millions more than they already owe him.

Good to be non-mig......don't want to pay the assesment the scabs will have to levy to pay the union busting little lawyer.

 

[Move2CLT]

Thanks for pointing out the pay advantage the westies have enjoyed since we 'merged'. Thanks for reminding all of us on the east how the west did not support parity and how that has affected each of us.
Thanks for illustrating that the west has not been damaged at all during this impasse, but instead has profited by it. And thanks for showing how Dougie & Scooter are squeaking out a profit on the backs of labor.
Oh, BTW, the chart is worthless for trying to get anyone from the east to vote for Fergie & Co.
Good effort, though.
Keep trying.
Cheers.

There was nothing to support boo boo. Another myth you continue to propagate.

You didn't get parity because you had no leverage to negotiate it. We couldn't have helped you even if we wanted to.

I know this is asking alot, but get your facts straight. You failed to get parity on your own.

Good effort though.

Cheers!

 

[cleardirect]

Really?? Where is the link??

This I got to read.

Seeham will hand usapa its ass on a platter, and take the scabs for millions more than they already owe him.

Good to be non-mig......don't want to pay the assesment the scabs will have to levy to pay the union busting little lawyer.

Fellow Pilots,

Over the last four years USAPA has paid the firm of Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen more than $7 million in fees and expenses. In mid-2011, after reviewing the bills from the Seham firm, an experienced forensic accounting firm advised us that the bills "lack[ed] the detail widely accepted as the norm for legal billing"; "were some of the most uninformative invoices in terms of billing detail" it had "ever seen"; were "a significant deviation from the standard bills firms submit to their clients"; and failed to list the "number of hours expended, description of the work performed, identity of the person doing the work." The accounting firm noted that USAPA has "a fiduciary responsibility" to pay only bills that accurately represent the services rendered and that the bills from the Seham firm lacked the detail necessary to determine whether the fees and expenses were actually incurred and should be paid.

The Seham firm refused to provide the backup and supporting information to justify their invoices despite two letters asking for that information. The BPR then adopted a resolution retaining Attorney Sarah McShea and the accounting firm of Holtz Rubenstein Reminick, LLP to audit the Seham bills.

Ms. McShea recently reported that she had been no more successful in persuading the Seham firm to provide the information that she needed to conduct her independent review and to which we are absolutely entitled. In a written report, Ms McShea said: "Despite our efforts, the Seham firm has utterly failed and refused to cooperate with our routine requests for information and documents, as well as access to the firm's automated billing system and underlying data files." Ms. McShea noted that based on what little the Seham firm had provided, "there is a considerable basis for serious concern about the accuracy of the Seham firm's bills to USAPA"; that the firm "appears to have engaged in a number of questionable billing practices"; and that "the full extent of the problem cannot be determined unless the audit is completed and that cannot be done without obtaining the information requested in the audit." Ms. McShea recommended "that USAPA undertake formal action without delay" against the Seham firm to "obtain the information" which the Seham firm "has refused to produce" and which is necessary to complete the audit.

In the resolution authorizing the audit, the BPR gave Ms. McShea "independent authority to take all action necessary and appropriate to completing the audit." In accord with the resolution and Ms. McShea's recent report and recommendation, I have authorized legal action to require the Seham firm to provide the information necessary to complete the audit and, once the audit is complete, to recover what we currently estimate to at a very minimum to be well in excess of $100,000 paid to the Seham firm as a result of improper and inaccurate billings.

A copy of the complaint that was filed today in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York is attached. The complaint asks the Court to order the Seham firm to provide the information necessary to complete the audit as well as seeking money damages for any overbilling that has occurred.

Sincerely,

Captain Mike Cleary

Not the board, not the pilots. "I" Mike Cleary have decided to spend your money for personal reasons.
President

 

[PullUp]

It is all about the fourth stripe for you. Until you get that fourth stripe. Then it will be all about the money.

Go read the 'new approach to pilot pay' thread. I'm glad you agree that rank should not be the goal, but that pay could and should be commensurate with LOS.
One payscale, like the west has now, would solve this sticky problem.
Obviously you value a fourth stripe more than money, so I welcome your support.
Let your BPR rep know!
Cheers.