US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Thanks for pointing out the pay advantage the westies have enjoyed since we 'merged'. Thanks for reminding all of us on the east how the west did not support parity and how that has affected each of us.
Thanks for illustrating that the west has not been damaged at all during this impasse, but instead has profited by it. And thanks for showing how Dougie & Scooter are squeaking out a profit on the backs of labor.
Oh, BTW, the chart is worthless for trying to get anyone from the east to vote for Fergie & Co.
Good effort, though.
Keep trying.
Cheers.

Who has been in charge for the last 4 years? Complete control for 4 years and you east guys can't get parity, so stop blaming the west and look to your own leadership. There is no west so there is no one stopping you from getting parity except the inept NAC.

Besides do you think that the west is so powerful that if we just said to Parker go ahead and give them $100 million a year he would?

Damages began in 2006 when our contract became amendable. usapa assumed those damages in 2008.

 

[cleardirect]

Go read the 'new approach to pilot pay' thread. I'm glad you agree that rank should not be the goal, but that pay could and should be commensurate with LOS.
One payscale, like the west has now, would solve this sticky problem.
Obviously you value a fourth stripe more than money, so I welcome your support.
Let your BPR rep know!
Cheers.

Go read the pilot contract. We have a single pay rates for airplanes. 757 pays the same as a 737 or 320. The captain and F/O get paid different.

We do have a LOS scale but it ends at 15 years. A 25 year scale just because that is how long it takes to upgrade on the east, not going to happen. I thought you guys were all about WB flying and the ego not the money. So now it is LOS and not airplane that you want to get paid for.

 

[electricjet98]

Go read the pilot contract. We have a single pay rates for airplanes. 757 pays the same as a 737 or 320. The captain and F/O get paid different.

Indeed. If east pilots would only bother themselves with actually reading factual information (CBA's, TA's and legal transcripts) rather than the dogma that USAPA provides in their nursing bottles, we would all be far better off. Besides the same pay rates for the 757, 737, A320 family aircraft but different pay for seat, they would also see that per T/A and LOA not ALL aircrarft specified in the west contracts share equal pay. A330 and E190 pay is the same as east...and different than west. The Nic mitigation via backdoor transfer of wealth by LOS pay pay schemes will go nowhere. Still a DFR by USAPA which ties the company to liability. It most certainly wouldn't survive a merger and new T/A...but would certainly waste time and serve the "needs" of an entitled minority.

BTW, "PullUp"...does that refer to a particular style of diaper?

 

[Move2CLT]

Go read the pilot contract. We have a single pay rates for airplanes. 757 pays the same as a 737 or 320. The captain and F/O get paid different.

We do have a LOS scale but it ends at 15 years. A 25 year scale just because that is how long it takes to upgrade on the east, not going to happen. I thought you guys were all about WB flying and the ego not the money. So now it is LOS and not airplane that you want to get paid for.

What is wrong with you people!?!?! This is the second post where someone has asked an eastie to look something up.

If have have learned anything, its that the east's paradigm consists of emotion and wishful thinking and not silly facts.

Quit insulting them by having them "look it up."

 

[Zone5]

Pilots should click here to review an interesting pay chart. Then click over the four pay stubs in between the two bar graphs.

Thanks for the interesting pay info on the four West pilots featured in: http://www.fergusonforpresident.com/payrates.html

Let's see, if I do the math correctly:

Captain Stover made $169,737 last year, at top of scale of $141.85 per/hr, that works out to an average of 99.7 pay hours per month.

Captain Miller made $177,931 last year, at top scale of $141.85 per/hr, that works out to an average of 104.5 pay hours per month.

First Officer Oureshi made $118,941 last year, at top scale of $93.61 per/hr, that works out to an average of 105.0 pay hours per month.

First Officer LaTone made 118,059 last year, at top scale of $93.61 per/hr, that works out to an average of 105.0 pay hours per month.

I believe there are 51 West pilots still on furlough. Even at 99 hr/mo instead of say 85 hr/mo, it would only take six pilots to create another job for a fellow West furloughed pilot or a total of 306 fewer pilots just flying their blocks at say 85 hr/mo instead of 99 hr/mo to bring them ALL back! Probably less depending on how many are actually in the 105 hour club.

Assuming just Captains saw fit to do so would also create a like number of upgrades to the left seat. Am I missing something here?


seajay

 

[fodase]

Thanks for the interesting pay info on the four West pilots featured in: http://www.fergusonforpresident.com/payrates.html

Let's see, if I do the math correctly:

Captain Stover made $169,737 last year, at top of scale of $141.85 per/hr, that works out to an average of 99.7 pay hours per month.

Captain Miller made $177,931 last year, at top scale of $141.85 per/hr, that works out to an average of 104.5 pay hours per month.

First Officer Oureshi made $118,941 last year, at top scale of $93.61 per/hr, that works out to an average of 105.0 pay hours per month.

First Officer LaTone made 118,059 last year, at top scale of $93.61 per/hr, that works out to an average of 105.0 pay hours per month.

I believe there are 51 West pilots still on furlough. Even at 99 hr/mo instead of say 85 hr/mo, it would only take six pilots to create another job for a fellow West furloughed pilot or a total of 306 fewer pilots just flying their blocks at say 85 hr/mo instead of 99 hr/mo to bring them ALL back! Probably less depending on how many are actually in the 105 hour club.

Assuming just Captains saw fit to do so would also create a like number of upgrades to the left seat. Am I missing something here?


seajay

Man you are an idiot, those guys flew no where near those hours, the point is west work rules are some of the best in the industry and allow that level of pay without having to work very hard.

 

[Zone5]

Man you are an idiot, those guys flew no where near those hours, the point is west work rules are some of the best in the industry and allow that level of pay without having to work very hard.

OK, so help me out here. Lets just look at Captain Millers $177,931 last year, if he did indeed fly "no where near" 105 hr/mo last year, just how did he earn the extra pay no credit $33,244 dollars? Please try to keep it simple, me being "an idiot" and all.

Buy the way, if you think the "west work rules are some of the best in the industry", you've been drinking the America West "Flavor-Aid" way too much.

If the pay examples provided by Ferguson are indeed representative of the wages paid to the rank and file West pilots, it's no wonder "Team Tempe" has been so reluctant to provide pay parity for the East. I guess that would also explain the West staffing numbers that Ferguson brags so much about.

Now I see why "Dougie" has been so reluctant to negotiate the rest of a new JCBA, sans Section-22, he can't even afford to pay the East what he pays the West now!

seajay

 

[high*flyer]

How are the work rules on the international flying out west?

 

[fodase]

OK, so help me out here. Lets just look at Captain Millers $177,931 last year, if he did indeed fly "no where near" 105 hr/mo last year, just how did he earn the extra pay no credit $33,244 dollars? Please try to keep it simple, me being "an idiot" and all.

Buy the way, if you think the "west work rules are some of the best in the industry", you've been drinking the America West "Flavor-Aid" way too much.

If the pay examples provided by Ferguson are indeed representative of the wages paid to the rank and file West pilots, it's no wonder "Team Tempe" has been so reluctant to provide pay parity for the East. I guess that would also explain the West staffing numbers that Ferguson brags so much about.

Now I see why "Dougie" has been so reluctant to negotiate the rest of a new JCBA, sans Section-22, he can't even afford to pay the East what he pays the West now!

seajay

Duh! Now you know why usapa is giving up all west work rules so they can be turned into cash for the east. Btw, idiot, it is a FACT the west has the best work rules of any pilot group in the us, work rules that allow west pilots to earn much more than hourly wage suggests. A west contract with 10% raise and 5% retirement bump would in fact be industry leading as of now

 

[high*flyer]

Yep, the west has always been the envy of the industry!!

 

[cactusboy53]

OK, so help me out here. Lets just look at Captain Millers $177,931 last year, if he did indeed fly "no where near" 105 hr/mo last year, just how did he earn the extra pay no credit $33,244 dollars? Please try to keep it simple, me being "an idiot" and all.

Buy the way, if you think the "west work rules are some of the best in the industry", you've been drinking the America West "Flavor-Aid" way too much.

If the pay examples provided by Ferguson are indeed representative of the wages paid to the rank and file West pilots, it's no wonder "Team Tempe" has been so reluctant to provide pay parity for the East. I guess that would also explain the West staffing numbers that Ferguson brags so much about.

Now I see why "Dougie" has been so reluctant to negotiate the rest of a new JCBA, sans Section-22, he can't even afford to pay the East what he pays the West now!

seajay

Zone;
If you read our contract (on wings), you probably could figure it out for yourself. We tire of driving you to school EVERY SINGLE STINKING DAY.

The reason that we staffed the way we are and have furloughed pilots (while miraculously the east is hiring new pilots), is because we have been cut back in the west to minimum fleet by senior LCC management. Any person of integrity could see what games are being played here.

See you in PHL, CLT or DCA soon.

CB

 

[nic4us]

OK, so help me out here. Lets just look at Captain Millers $177,931 last year, if he did indeed fly "no where near" 105 hr/mo last year, just how did he earn the extra pay no credit $33,244 dollars? Please try to keep it simple, me being "an idiot" and all.

Buy the way, if you think the "west work rules are some of the best in the industry", you've been drinking the America West "Flavor-Aid" way too much.

If the pay examples provided by Ferguson are indeed representative of the wages paid to the rank and file West pilots, it's no wonder "Team Tempe" has been so reluctant to provide pay parity for the East. I guess that would also explain the West staffing numbers that Ferguson brags so much about.

Now I see why "Dougie" has been so reluctant to negotiate the rest of a new JCBA, sans Section-22, he can't even afford to pay the East what he pays the West now!

seajay

In the intrest of full disclosure.

1. it was not 177,931 it was 172,931 some 5k less.
2. The 173k includes his per diem and he is on the 757 and gets a couple overrides.
3. It also includes his profit sharing (4125) and triple play money, although the triple play money is offset by his distance learning repayment to the company thanks to TP and usapa.
4. He flew some trips with incentive pay. i.e. he picked up red flagged trips that pay 150%, or was re-routed and payed a 150% override.
5. He is indeed what we on the West call a time whore. He averaged 95 hours pay per month. He likely actually flew an average of 83-85 hours per month.

 

[KTM300]

Man you are an idiot, those guys flew no where near those hours, the point is west work rules are some of the best in the industry and allow that level of pay without having to work very hard.

Wow...According to you,CD and CB and M2C and Eastcheese and N4 and the rest of your merry band of westies who are all thumping their chests, bragging about how wonderful your contract is and how much money you all can make, I just have one question. If life is so good for you now, why do you want what we have so badly?

 

[KTM300]

Good. If they keep eating that stuff, we just may inherit this airline alot sooner than I thought.

Keep that extra deep fried chicken coming!!

That's kinda funny you say that because last week before we left CLT for PHX, an agent gave me a big bag of Bojangles to take to PHX were someone would meet our flight. Seems the desert folk like the greasy stuff too! Frankly, I tried it and prefer another southern favorite, Chic-Fil-A!

 

[Move2CLT]

Wow...According to you,CD and CB and M2C and Eastcheese and N4 and the rest of your merry band of westies who are all thumping their chests, bragging about how wonderful your contract is and how much money you all can make, I just have one question. If life is so good for you now, why do you want what we have so badly?

What exactly is it you think you have?