US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Res Judicata]

I'll help you out. Indeed there are apples and oranges here.. 1) The union's right to negotiate a contract and 2) the membership's right to vote on the company proposal. To get the Nic implemented you are hoping that the FCS will give you both of those apples and oranges.

You've hade four years! You've called every single shot! Where the hell is your contract?! Where the HELL is even your "vote" on said contract?

A sane person would put the puzzle pieces together and realize that there must be something fundamentally wrong here. Most other airlines are negotiating their second contract now...you idiots managed to close out the POW section and that's about it. I know. It's a combination of senile arbitrators, Federal Judges, Team Tempe, and those strong arming malcontents over at AOL that have nothing else to do in life but frustrate the lives of only the East pilot group.

There is one airline now. Everyone here has the right to fair and equitable treatment. You can spend what's left of your miserable failure of a career to attempt to deny those rights but in the end, you will have failed that goal just as catastrophically as you've failed to managed your own personal career choices. We aren't moving an inch, no law on the books can make us move either. Your side? Not so much. Enjoy being parked, your injunction, and your turbo prop pay rates.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

You've hade four years! You've called every single shot! Where the hell is your contract?! Where the HELL is even your "vote" on said contract?

A sane person would put the puzzle pieces together and realize that there must be something fundamentally wrong here. Most other airlines are negotiating their second contract now...you idiots managed to close out the POW section and that's about it. I know. It's a combination of senile arbitrators, Federal Judges, Team Tempe, and those strong arming malcontents over at AOL that have nothing else to do in life but frustrate the lives of only the East pilot group.

There is one airline now. Everyone here has the right to fair and equitable treatment. You can spend what's left of your miserable failure of a career to attempt to deny those rights but in the end, you will have failed that goal just as catastrophically as you've failed to managed your own personal career choices. We aren't moving an inch, no law on the books can make us move either. Your side? Not so much. Enjoy being parked, your injunction, and your turbo prop pay rates.

You forgot our PBGC at age 60 payments, but thanx! We do!

 

[BoeingBoy]

You forgot our PBGC at age 60 payments, but thanx! We do!

Just another "don't look beyond the here and now" statement. Won't be long till everyone able to get those PBGC payments at 60 will be PC4s - meaning they'll be taking a reduction in benefits for life to get those PBGC payments 5 years early. Those already stuck with the PBGC max guarantee will be reducing it more....

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

You've hade four years.............

A sane person would put the puzzle pieces together and realize that there must be something fundamentally wrong here.

We aren't moving an inch, no law on the books can make us move either.

"four years!"..........."We aren't moving an inch, no law on the books can make us move either."....................."A sane person would put the puzzle pieces together and realize that there must be something fundamentally wrong here." 😉

 

[nevergiveup]

You've hade four years! You've called every single shot! Where the hell is your contract?! Where the HELL is even your "vote" on said contract?

A sane person would put the puzzle pieces together and realize that there must be something fundamentally wrong here. Most other airlines are negotiating their second contract now...you idiots managed to close out the POW section and that's about it. I know. It's a combination of senile arbitrators, Federal Judges, Team Tempe, and those strong arming malcontents over at AOL that have nothing else to do in life but frustrate the lives of only the East pilot group.

There is one airline now. Everyone here has the right to fair and equitable treatment. You can spend what's left of your miserable failure of a career to attempt to deny those rights but in the end, you will have failed that goal just as catastrophically as you've failed to managed your own personal career choices. We aren't moving an inch, no law on the books can make us move either. Your side? Not so much. Enjoy being parked, your injunction, and your turbo prop pay rates.

Remember, the west had the chance to make NIC real at the river but didn't. They would own the airline in just a few years and we would probably have a contract. Keep blaming someone else if it makes you feel better. I blame ALPO.

 

[im back..!!]

You've hade four years! You've called every single shot! Where the hell is your contract?! Where the HELL is even your "vote" on said contract?

A sane person would put the puzzle pieces together and realize that there must be something fundamentally wrong here. Most other airlines are negotiating their second contract now...you idiots managed to close out the POW section and that's about it. I know. It's a combination of senile arbitrators, Federal Judges, Team Tempe, and those strong arming malcontents over at AOL that have nothing else to do in life but frustrate the lives of only the East pilot group.

There is one airline now. Everyone here has the right to fair and equitable treatment. You can spend what's left of your miserable failure of a career to attempt to deny those rights but in the end, you will have failed that goal just as catastrophically as you've failed to managed your own personal career choices. We aren't moving an inch, no law on the books can make us move either. Your side? Not so much. Enjoy being parked, your injunction, and your turbo prop pay rates.

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Im afraid you will have to wait aprox 4-5 more years for a contract, when the west will outnumber the east.

The terms of the transition agreement require a joint contract for implementation of the Nic award. with out the joint contract, the Nic is just a clause in the transition agreement....

If by chance we have a merger in the current state (ie, no contract/ consumated transition agreement) then we start all over with a seniority list intergration per the CB&L's of both representating unions.

If by chance the two sides can't come to an agreement (example APA/USAPA) then the Makascall Bond bill would apply....

Now I have to ask you seriously....what do you think the chances are that USAPA is going to violate there CB&L's and not give the APA a DOH list inclusive of all the Usairways pilots it represents?

Sooo, what would the company have to offer in the form of a new contract for the east to walk away from the seniority forever? and more to the point, why would the company do that?

We just spent 2years in arbitration to clarify what the meaning of the word "expire" means, and lost (it obvisously dosent mean what I thought it meant). So I would be very surprised to see the company offer big bucks and or work rules to save the Nic award status of a 3rd of there pilots.
Just my opinion, let's hear if I called anything completely wrong...

 

[Move2CLT]

Remember, the west had the chance to make NIC real at the river but didn't. They would own the airline in just a few years and we would probably have a contract. Keep blaming someone else if it makes you feel better. I blame ALPO.

Of course you blame ALPA - you're an eastie and its in your blood to blame everything and anything but yourself.

Wye was BS. The offer that was made by the east at Wye was nothing more than DOH.

Do you even know what you guys put on the table there? Do you know where all the new aircraft went? Do you know how furloughs would be handled?

Didn't think so.

You guys had a chance to make this SLI real during negotiations but had DOH blinders on.

Everyone blames the east and that makes me feel better.

 

[Move2CLT]

You forgot our PBGC at age 60 payments, but thanx! We do!

No exactly what you were expecting though, right?

 

[EastUS1]

Everyone blames the east and that makes me feel better.

View PostRes Judicata, on 23 March 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:
A sane person would put the puzzle pieces together and realize that there must be something fundamentally wrong here.

 

[nevergiveup]

Of course you blame ALPA - you're an eastie and its in your blood to blame everything and anything but yourself.

Wye was BS. The offer that was made by the east at Wye was nothing more than DOH.

Do you even know what you guys put on the table there? Do you know where all the new aircraft went? Do you know how furloughs would be handled?

Didn't think so.

You guys had a chance to make this SLI real during negotiations but had DOH blinders on.

Everyone blames the east and that makes me feel better.

Say anything you want if it makes you feel better, I don't mind.

 

[luvn737s]

There is still that pesky vote thing.

Followed by the pesky injunction thing if it doesn't contain the Nic. Yippee, the east voted to continue fnanacing a union that's mandate is to do nothing. Idiots!

You can be sure that management will write every word of the next transition agreement and not allow the irresponsible to have any say in the matter.

This whole USAPA thing tops anything I ever saw Lorenzo or Icahn pull and it's all fueled by the vindictiveness of a few and the apathy and ignorance of many.

 

[Barrister]

Well technically you have to get the 9th to accept your case on appeal before you can have a chance to overturn a Count 1 ruling by Silver. That's going to be a tall order when ripeness isn't even a remote question this time. The odds don't look too good for $eham to get you back to the 9th and then to actually get the Silver ruling remanded.

You may be right that it may take 2-4 more years, but then again it's just as likely to be all wrapped up with the NIC in section 22 before the end of this year.

Keep dreaming pal.....did you actually see the vote totals.....you think a NIC inclusive contract will look about the same?? Without a BIG raise ..and I mean BIG....you think we take the NIC to get Delta rates. It's right in front of you but you are blind to it. You get the NIC when you outnumber the guys who will be screwed by it and the guys who support them. Looks like about 2200 of them.

Another thought, most of us are gone in 5-10 years. Subtract 3 from that number and that is how many years we will benefit from any contract enhancements.....you think it will be significant enough to accept the NIC. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN my impatient westie friend!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Ames]

"four years!"..........."We aren't moving an inch, no law on the books can make us move either."....................."A sane person would put the puzzle pieces together and realize that there must be something fundamentally wrong here." 😉

There is. People like you with your heads so far up your butts that you will never see daylight.

 

[Ames]

Remember, the west had the chance to make NIC real at the river but didn't. They would own the airline in just a few years and we would probably have a contract. Keep blaming someone else if it makes you feel better. I blame ALPO.

Please explain how we could have made the NIC real at "the river" when Wye River was all about mitigating the NIC?

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Im afraid you will have to wait aprox 4-5 more years for a contract, when the west will outnumber the east.

Ain't gonna happen.

With explosive hiring on the east starting this year, I cannot imagine an east relative new hire who is comfortably in the right seat international or even left seat voting for a contract that will cause him to instantly and effectively lose 1800 numbers, give or take.

What will happen is that DOH will become more and more attractive to the west and their greed will eventually overcome the "winning lottery ticket" syndrome that blinds them. They could have been there by now flying wide bodies, but, I guess it takes time to flush stupid.