US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

View PostRes Judicata, on 23 March 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:
A sane person would put the puzzle pieces together and realize that there must be something fundamentally wrong here.

And I completely agree with Res.

Courts don't agree with you, arbitrator doesn't agree with you, company doesn't agree with you, you're parked, enjoined, and suing that architect of your DOH scheme. You just blew off your bulldogs and elected a velvet glove.

So what's fundamentally wrong here is you guys are nuts.

 

[Pi brat]

Both sides of this fight have decided that it is better to live with what we have and stay separate than to put together with a new contract and the Nic/DOH. That is just the way it is, neither side is going to give an inch until forced to. We need to accept each others position, put aside the anger and try to work together as best as possible. Fighting each other on every little issue is not moving us towards resolution. Hopefully Hummel will stop the anti-west tactics of the past that only drove us further apart.

 

[Pi brat]

And I completely agree with Res.

Courts don't agree with you, arbitrator doesn't agree with you, company doesn't agree with you, you're parked, enjoined, and suing that architect of your DOH scheme. You just blew off your bulldogs and elected a velvet glove.

So what's fundamentally wrong here is you guys are nuts.

And you are not nuts? You have a possible merger staring you in the face and instead of trying to come to a solution you keep up the same tactics. What is that definition of insanity? You have claimed that you are "educating" the east. How did that work for you in the election? What happened to all those east pilots that you talked to that were so supportive of the west and their message? 2 to 1.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Keep dreaming pal.....did you actually see the vote totals.....

Near as I can figure - haven't seen a breakdown of the numbers yet, just percentages - two of the three "east" candidates barely got the support of 55% of the electorate and the third didn't get that much. That's despite the east having at least 2/3 (or 67%) of the electorate. Put a contract out with a decent raise and it might well pass....which is why all USAPA has is delay...

Jim

 

[nevergiveup]

Please explain how we could have made the NIC real at "the river" when Wye River was all about mitigating the NIC?

Are you a new hire?

 

[Move2CLT]

Ain't gonna happen.

With explosive hiring on the east starting this year, I cannot imagine an east relative new hire who is comfortably in the right seat international or even left seat voting for a contract that will cause him to instantly and effectively lose 1800 numbers, give or take.

What will happen is that DOH will become more and more attractive to the west and their greed will eventually overcome the "winning lottery ticket" syndrome that blinds them. They could have been there by now flying wide bodies, but, I guess it takes time to flush stupid.

Explosive hiring? Is that like that explosive retirements you were expecting after LOA93 came

 

[Pi brat]

Near as I can figure - haven't seen a breakdown of the numbers yet, just percentages - two of the three "east" candidates barely got the support of 55% of the electorate and the third didn't get that much. That's despite the east having at least 2/3 (or 67%) of the electorate. Put a contract out with a decent raise and it might well pass....which is why all USAPA has is delay...

Jim

Fun with numbers. If you look at it that way, Ferguson only got 33% of the eligible vote. Then almost 11% didn't care enough to vote. In the original election Feguson got 1119 votes. In the final he only picked up another 170, despite pressure from the west on their non-voting pilots and a push from some diehard Cleary supporters to vote for Ferguson. It's pretty clear what the numbers show.....we are all happy with our situation, or at least not hurting enough to change it. Pretty much what has been said for the last 5 years.

I do agree with your comment about a good enough Nic inclusive contract passing. I've said that all along. The problem will be getting a "good enough" contract, no matter who is running things.

What the west slate really didn't come out and say was that their plan for an "industry leading contract" was that it was through a merger.

 

[Move2CLT]

And you are not nuts? You have a possible merger staring you in the face and instead of trying to come to a solution you keep up the same tactics. What is that definition of insanity? You have claimed that you are "educating" the east. How did that work for you in the election? What happened to all those east pilots that you talked to that were so supportive of the west and their message? 2 to 1.

Of course I'm not nuts Pi. My solution is for you guys to accept your agreed to binding arbitration.

As for the. Ore, so be it. I've said it before that you guys only understand a 2x4 to your heads. Look at what you did with LOA93 before you figured it out. You ended up giving more than the company's initial ask.

That, Pi, is proof that you guys have the problem.

No changes. More of the same. We'll see if Hummel/Bradford are the lucky ones to see Nic come onto property.

 

[Move2CLT]

Are you a new hire?

STFU boo boo.

You know nothing of Wye.

 

[Pi brat]

That, Pi, is proof that you guys have the problem.

There is no doubt that WE have a problem, but you guys fail to see that it is WE. You are not still AWA, you are part of this mess, like it or not. As long as we keep acting the way we have we will keep ending up with the short end of the stick. We are an army fighting itself.

 

[cleardirect]

There is still that pesky vote thing.

And that pesky little arbitration.

 

[Move2CLT]

There is no doubt that WE have a problem, but you guys fail to see that it is WE. You are not still AWA, you are part of this mess, like it or not. As long as we keep acting the way we have we will keep ending up with the short end of the stick. We are an army fighting itself.

What do you propose then Pi. No change can be made to the TA or the arbitration. YOU guys have painted YOURSELVES into a corner.

 

[Move2CLT]

And that pesky little arbitration.

And that pesky DJ.

 

[Pi brat]

What do you propose then Pi. No change can be made to the TA or the arbitration. YOU guys have painted YOURSELVES into a corner.

Stop fighting each other on everything. Let's see what Judge Silver says, the company says about her ruling and go from there. In the mean time, start focus on a potential merger with AA.

 

[cleardirect]

Stop fighting each other on everything. Let's see what Judge Silver says, the company says about her ruling and go from there. In the mean time, start focus on a potential merger with AA.

That would be nice. Except usapa has no merger fund, no merger committee and a C&BL that the east thinks trumps federal law. There is also that little CoC clause that has no value but usapa will play like they think it is a royal flush.

We will be going up against a bigger, better funded better organized group that has not spent the last 7 years engaged in battle to the death. Unit cohesion is non existent here. The east just voted for another 3 years of the same. You guys thought you got screwed in the AWA merger. That is nothing compared to what is going to happen in an AA merger.