US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

Yes, the vehicle that arrived first goes first.....

Works for me.

PS: Does "Who is th ecar on the right? Whoever Nicolau said it was!!!" actually make any coherent sense to you?

 

[Phoenix]

Fine and dandy Callaway. What you blow right by is that"The point is" that the traffic officer is both required and expected to facilitate said traffic flowing as best as circumstances allow. How many years into this mess now?...and...ANYONE can yet imagine or even slightly suggest that nic, in ANY way, shape or form, facilitated said flow???....Words just fail me there....a bigger, or certainly longer lasting "traffic jam" has never been seen before. If nic, served as said "traffic cop" for anything approaching this jam in the actual streets ...well...I can only imagine that he'd have been pulled off duty long ago for complete and utter incompetence...if not just taken directly to an asylum.

"As a matter of law..." Oh well. None can know the ultimate outcome of this mess via any current matter of law. Even assuming that, on whatever schedule, eventual and final determination ever falls in favor of the west...well...then all you have to do, as was the case from the onset of this insanity, is find some methodology through which you can actually force the nic into being, regardless of how anyone votes. 'Rotsa' 'Ruck with that.

You needn't waste any time or effort on my part. All you will ever get from me is a "NO!!!!" vote on anything containing nic....period.

Same ole' Same ole'...........

Thanks for at least allowing for a civil exchange, whatever our manifest differences of opinion clearly are. Have a good one.

Never has anyone claimed that any solution is one until a ratification vote makes it so, ergo anything short of a ratification is merely by definition a proposal, as the 9th articulated. Anyone who pins their hope on the courts providing a solution isn't paying attention... Including the illustrious courts themselves who are too stupid to realize that their interference and meddling in negotiations is nothing more.

 

[Move2CLT]

Parity? I don't want parity with the West. It would be a pay cut!

seajay

Impossible. You guys are bottom of the industry.

 

[Move2CLT]

The West likes to claim that the East walked away from a consensual agreement regarding talks of seniority, USAPA only took over where ALPA left off. The West had no intentions on an agreement, ALPA did not want them to, they knew this was phase one of a seniority integration with United. Nice try West, United and ALPA, you chose the wrong group of pilots to obtain your goal.

"MEC Chairman’s Message
February 8, 2008

This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a chairman’s message to the pilots for Friday, February 08, 2008.

After nine days of talks between the US Airways and America West Steering Committees, the America West contingent has chosen to stand down talks. At this time they are not prepared to address seniority implementation issues, specifically, mitigating the damages caused by the Nicolau Award.
Recall that we met to determine if we had enough common ground between us on important issues to come up with a comprehensive counterproposal for both MECs to review. As we told you, this counter proposal would have to adequately address not only all open JNC issues, but more importantly for the AAA pilots, pay parity and seniority protection. We came to the neutral site at Wye River, MD with these goals in mind, and within these goals we developed certain thresholds needing to be achieved for the benefit of the US Airways pilots. Despite what you may have heard or read, none of that changed during the meeting.

While we respect what the AWA pilots were there to accomplish, the US Airways MEC’s position remains the same and our MEC’s Steering Committee members did not compromise that position. We never wavered from our goal of protecting you from the Nicolau Award, and our threshold for meeting those goals never changed.

I’ll be calling the MEC into session for a special meeting next week. While there is no comprehensive counterproposal to bring back to the MEC, they'll receive a briefing on the process, and I plan to add two other items to the agenda: developing a distribution methodology for 2007 Profit Sharing and Stock Options and to review an agreement extending the timeframe for filing disputes concerning flow-through issues.

The MEC will now review our options. Keep in mind that the odds of any plan we develop succeeding are greatly diminished by members of this MEC continuing to cower behind their fear of failure and seeking to sabotage any process we elect to pursue. You can see that all of the noise and accusations coming out of PHL Council 41 about the work of our Steering Committee was unfounded and disingenuous. When it came time to meet directly with our AWA counterparts, we did exactly what we said we would, AAA pilots working with AWA pilots trying to mitigate the damages of the Nicolau Award.
Excuses and alibis will not replace leadership. We made a promise, and we kept it. There was no cramdown, no end-run deal, no deal chasing and no back room conspiracies. I hope you did not fall for these contrived ideas spread in order to try and scare you. The majority of this MEC and your MEC officers are not afraid of failure. We said we were going to look under every stone to find solutions and we meant it. My only fear is that some of our MEC fear the search may actually produce something that would require them to lead rather than criticize. I can tell you that the majority of your MEC was willing to continue the search. Although this process has not worked so far, we are no worse off for engaging in the exercise.

You would have been extremely proud of our team of pilots who met at the Wye River Conference Center. These are men of honor and integrity and they are most importantly, men of their word. Their commitment to the process and to you was rock solid. Threats and intimidation attempts by some minority disenchanted MEC members and paper tigers did not sway these men of honor from pursuing the direction that the majority of the MEC had set. They did their best trying to reach a solution to the Nicolau Award. At this time the AWA pilots are unwilling to address our seniority concerns. Again, we are no worse off for having engaged in this process. We remain right where we started and that is in separate operations with the West.

I thank you for your patience during the past few weeks. I know it’s been difficult. There will be other options at our disposal after the MEC gets the chance to strategize internally next week. While conditions and opportunities may change, the goal has not and our threshold for success has not. Our mission remains the same, to protect you from the damages caused by the Nicolau Award.

Thank you for listening. As always, fly safe and continue to look out for each other."

Complete and utter nonsense.

Seniority was complete by the time Wye came along. You guys were merely trying to take a second bite at the apple.

Wye was a diversion by National. A ruse. They were trying to calm you guys down. Everyone outside of the east knew nothing was going to come out of it.

And you guys had the gall to try to slip in your DOH BS.

You were lucky we even showed up.

 

[Move2CLT]

Well, it did make me smile.

I hope that someday you will fly to Europe on a regular basis and will get the chance to actually see the difference in the way they live over there.

Don't get me wrong.....flying across the Atlantic is tiring and takes some getting used to, but for me, that's where the max pay is in my career at this time.

breeze

And you have to supplement that pay with retirement.

That's sad.

 

[Move2CLT]

You just have no track record of demonstrating that knowledge. I understand.

Whose gonna respond Ms. Jekhyll, or Mr. Hyde?

"Norman!" "NORMAN!!"

You should have read some of his PMs to me. I'll send you some so you can get a good laugh out of them.

 

[luvthe9]

Complete and utter nonsense.

Seniority was complete by the time Wye came along. You guys were merely trying to take a second bite at the apple.

Wye was a diversion by National. A ruse. They were trying to calm you guys down. Everyone outside of the east knew nothing was going to come out of it.

And you guys had the gall to try to slip in your DOH BS.

You were lucky we even showed up.

😛

 

[Barrister]

Complete and utter nonsense.

Seniority was complete by the time Wye came along. You guys were merely trying to take a second bite at the apple.

Wye was a diversion by National. A ruse. They were trying to calm you guys down. Everyone outside of the east knew nothing was going to come out of it.

And you guys had the gall to try to slip in your DOH BS.

You were lucky we even showed up.

Let me ask you a question. Plain and simple....what is your plan if 2-3 contracts get voted down SOLELY as a result of NIC. What if the courts say you gotta use NIC and it does NOT lead to a contract.
Where does that leave the collective bargaining process ??? Do the laws contemplate waiting 3, 4, 5, 6, years until you simply outnumber the East. Remember in their findings of fact the court commented on the unlikelyhood of a NIC inclusive contract passing. Do you simply think we will fold our hand at the point ANY court rules you have to use NIC. I have been telling you we still get to VOTE. It will not pass unless there is enough money to compensate for the loss that comes with the NIC. Think Parker will ante up??

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Phoenix]

Let me ask you a question. Plain and simple....what is your plan if 2-3 contracts get voted down SOLELY as a result of NIC. What if the courts say you gotta use NIC and it does NOT lead to a contract.
Where does that leave the collective bargaining process ??? Do the laws contemplate waiting 3, 4, 5, 6, years until you simply outnumber the East. Remember in their findings of fact the court commented on the unlikelyhood of a NIC inclusive contract passing. Do you simply think we will fold our hand at the point ANY court rules you have to use NIC. I have been telling you we still get to VOTE. It will not pass unless there is enough money to compensate for the loss that comes with the NIC. Think Parker will ante up??

NICDOA
NPJB

That is exactly why the 9th left USAPA and the company free to bargain without court interference. The new judges are stooges for the company that wants to stall. If Doug's team would spend as much money and energy trying to run an airline as they do in fleecing labor, imagine what they could accomplish.

 

[Res Judicata]

Let me ask you a question. Plain and simple....what is your plan if 2-3 contracts get voted down SOLELY as a result of NIC. What if the courts say you gotta use NIC and it does NOT lead to a contract.
Where does that leave the collective bargaining process ??? Do the laws contemplate waiting 3, 4, 5, 6, years until you simply outnumber the East. Remember in their findings of fact the court commented on the unlikelyhood of a NIC inclusive contract passing. Do you simply think we will fold our hand at the point ANY court rules you have to use NIC. I have been telling you we still get to VOTE. It will not pass unless there is enough money to compensate for the loss that comes with the NIC. Think Parker will ante up??

NICDOA
NPJB

Amazing you still don't understand this. Vote no all you want for as LONG as you want. The necessity for you to have an improved contract takes a BACK SEAT to the WEST'S rights to fair representation. Period. Why would the courts give two spitz about how long you've been on loa93? What MANDATORY right to a new contract do you think you're so supremely entitled? It goes both ways. The company's right to enjoy a new contract...with all the benefits it affords THEM takes a back seat to West fair representation. IOW the only list you're ever going to see on a potential contract is going to be the nic. Vote no as long as you want, just understand that there isn't an entity on Earth that gives a schitt if it ever passes. At some point, if the company wants to move fwd bad enough they know how to cram a contract up your six either through high pay....won't happen...or self help.

 

[Phoenix]

... At some point, if the company wants to move fwd bad enough they know how to cram a contract up your six either through high pay....won't happen...or self help.

Its "we", "us", and "our", bro. Welcome aboard. :wub:

 

[Barrister]

Amazing you still don't understand this. Vote no all you want for as LONG as you want. The necessity for you to have an improved contract takes a BACK SEAT to the WEST'S rights to fair representation. Period. Why would the courts give two spitz about how long you've been on loa93? What MANDATORY right to a new contract do you think you're so supremely entitled? It goes both ways. The company's right to enjoy a new contract...with all the benefits it affords THEM takes a back seat to West fair representation. IOW the only list you're ever going to see on a potential contract is going to be the nic. Vote no as long as you want, just understand that there isn't an entity on Earth that gives a schitt if it ever passes. At some point, if the company wants to move fwd bad enough they know how to cram a contract up your six either through high pay....won't happen...or self help.

If it never passes you don't get your nic you dumbass. You win but you don't. Next time there is a melt down you think the West will stay intact. You are too damn dumb to appreciate the cards you don't hold. We can wait for any scenario you can come up with.

PS have you had your blood pressure checked lately????

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Move2CLT]

😛

Excellent response.

Throw stuff up there that you have little to no knowledge of, spin it, and then defend it with emoticons.

No wonder Parker walks all over you guys.

 

[Move2CLT]

If it never passes you don't get your nic you dumbass. You win but you don't. Next time there is a melt down you think the West will stay intact. You are too damn dumb to appreciate the cards you don't hold. We can wait for any scenario you can come up with.

PS have you had your blood pressure checked lately????

NICDOA
NPJB

You sound scared. What gives?

And speaking of BP....

LMAO.

 

[Move2CLT]

That is exactly why the 9th left USAPA and the company free to bargain without court interference. The new judges are stooges for the company that wants to stall. If Doug's team would spend as much money and energy trying to run an airline as they do in fleecing labor, imagine what they could accomplish.

Typical eastie. Someone else's fault. Judges are stooges. Arbitrators are senile.

Whatever.

PHX, you ever consider with your history as a pilot group, that it actually might be you?