US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Piedmont1984]

The only real question that needs to be asked is: can YOU sit in the cockpit with a west pilot once a JCBA is ratified or enforced via self-help?

I don't agree. Yes I can work with a west pilot. I look forward to it. But I can think of many pairings, based on the rhetoric and vitriol posted here and elsewhere over the last several years, which would give me considerable pause before boarding an airplane with loved ones.

It only takes one incident. So the real question to be asked is: should some, even if it amounts to a handful, be allowed to sit in the same cockpit? Because when and if that unfortunate incident ever happens, the public record will be replete with prior warnings which will then constitute Exhibit A.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I'll try to stay out of the red with you, Piedmont'84....Thanks

Good. Afterward I'll buy the first round or two, in celebration.

 

[BoeingBoy]

But I can think of many pairings, based on the rhetoric and vitriol posted here and elsewhere over the last several years, which would give me considerable pause before boarding an airplane with loved ones.

Since 99.5% of the rhetoric about not being able to share a flight deck comes from east posters, maybe you should seek your answer from them....

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

The only problem I have with that is the way the east insisted I be placed under duress. I have no problem philosopicaly with some of your arguments, but rather with the big hammer you guys drug out. The huge problem is how the east went about it. I get where you are coming from more than you may think, but what would you expect me to do when you try to go for the submission? It's only human nature to get ones back up, so to speak.

The track we are on now, it probably won't matter one way or another which way the gavel falls by the time it's all said and done. I've resigned myself to the fact that this is the way it was destined to be, in many ways our situation has just taken on a life of it's own, one that once started must run it's natural course. It is what it is. In the meantime all these various analogies and the ninny ninny boo boo that both sides are slinging across the aisle are a collosal waste of time.

Beancounter: "Agree, if the east had taken the stance of, "hey this is really going to hurt some of our guys we need to find a solution."

I've no argument with either of you gentlemen there, and fully agree with: "It's only human nature to get ones back up, so to speak." The whole situation is truly a sorry, tragic mess that now must evidently play it's self out to whatever eventual ending occurs. Perhaps the most galling aspect is that, as pilots and people generally assumed to be able to rationally think on our feet at any moment's notice....that our respective "negotiators" couldn't reasonably come together at all, in order to find sufficient common ground so as to have avoided the arbitration in the first place. Perhaps we all should have just locked them up in a room until they did......

 

[Res Judicata]

Beancounter: "Agree, if the east had taken the stance of, "hey this is really going to hurt some of our guys we need to find a solution."

I've no argument with either of you gentlemen there, and fully agree with: "It's only human nature to get ones back up, so to speak." The whole situation is truly a sorry, tragic mess that now must evidently play it's self out to whatever eventual ending occurs. Perhaps the most galling aspect is that, as pilots and people generally assumed to be able to rationally think on our feet at any moment's notice....that our respective "negotiators" couldn't reasonably come together at all, in order to find sufficient common ground so as to have avoided the arbitration in the first place. Perhaps we all should have just locked them up in a room until they did......

They'd still be in there. You see, a hopelessly unemployed pilot should NEVER be allowed to trade positions with the gainfully employed. Your guys never understood that. Still don't. Nic. did however. So did a Jury, so does the company, so do Judges. You are 100% responsible for this and the only thing that pisses me off more than USAPA is the pathetic, cowardly trait of never accepting responsibility for ones actions.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Since 99.5% of the rhetoric about not being able to share a flight deck comes from east posters, maybe you should seek your answer from them....

Jim

Actually, 80% of that 99.5% rhetoric seems to come from me.

I have enough voices in my head without interviewing myself 🙂

 

[EastUS1]

They'd still be in there. You see, a hopelessly unemployed pilot should NEVER be allowed to trade positions with the gainfully employed. Your guys never understood that. Still don't. Nic. did however. So did a Jury, so does the company, so do Judges. You are 100% responsible for this and the only thing that pisses me off more than USAPA is the pathetic, cowardly trait of never accepting responsibility for ones actions.

"..pathetic, cowardly trait of never accepting responsibility for ones actions." Sigh!....OK "internet tough guy". Enjoy all that which, in the established elegance of your expression "pisses me off" until all has run it's full and sad course. Off to real life again. Have a good day.

 

[nic4us]

That's some funny stuff. I can't speak for them but I have managed to stay in the green since 1978. 34 years of incident and accident free flying.

You rookie!!!!!

Hey Cheats one of my best ideas was reform usapa, use the date you obtained your commercial liscense ( an ubiased piece of info supplied by a neutral FAA) and come up with a national seniority list, then arrange the LCC pilots according to that list.

What do you thinks the scabs thought of that idea?

 

[nic4us]

Please show us the factual money trail to back up your statement above.

Have a nice day!!

NLG out.

Sure...no problem...I mean it is only in every Wall Street article covering the merger, plus the Standard and Poor's explanation, plus the SEC filings, plus the company's 2005 annual report, so just stand by a minute while I link.....

On second thought..... go look it up yourself.

 

[traderjake]

Perhaps the most galling aspect is that, as pilots and people generally assumed to be able to rationally think on our feet at any moment's notice....that our respective "negotiators" couldn't reasonably come together at all, in order to find sufficient common ground so as to have avoided the arbitration in the first place. Perhaps we all should have just locked them up in a room until they did......

The East negotiators were forced to adopt a DOH position by the rank and file and MEC under threat of being recalled.

It was not their initial position.

 

[Barrister]

Beancounter: "Agree, if the east had taken the stance of, "hey this is really going to hurt some of our guys we need to find a solution."

I've no argument with either of you gentlemen there, and fully agree with: "It's only human nature to get ones back up, so to speak." The whole situation is truly a sorry, tragic mess that now must evidently play it's self out to whatever eventual ending occurs. Perhaps the most galling aspect is that, as pilots and people generally assumed to be able to rationally think on our feet at any moment's notice....that our respective "negotiators" couldn't reasonably come together at all, in order to find sufficient common ground so as to have avoided the arbitration in the first place. Perhaps we all should have just locked them up in a room until they did......

All true but please remember a FACT not often brought up....the West proposal placed 900 East WORKING crewmembers on the BOTTOM.
It is what it is...and it ain't what it ain't!!! (Old Blues song)

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Barrister]

They'd still be in there. You see, a hopelessly unemployed pilot should NEVER be allowed to trade positions with the gainfully employed. Your guys never understood that. Still don't. Nic. did however. So did a Jury, so does the company, so do Judges. You are 100% responsible for this and the only thing that pisses me off more than USAPA is the pathetic, cowardly trait of never accepting responsibility for ones actions.

One prob here dude....those hopeless unemployed would be nicely employed before NIC even rendered his decision. You are so spitefull you can't even remember BASIC facts. Guys like you are pathetic. Wallow in your own misery. We don't care.....but the way....those hopelessly unemplyed are close to holding a block and will be getting Captain bids in a few years....AHEAD OF YOU....AS IT SHOULD BE!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Beancounter]

All true but please remember a FACT not often brought up....the West proposal placed 900 East WORKING crewmembers on the BOTTOM.
It is what it is...and it ain't what it ain't!!! (Old Blues song)

NICDOA
NPJB

Yeah, I can remember being in a room with guys standing up and saying, "We're acquiring them, they need to go to the bottom of our list." I just sat there rolling my eyes. Your guys starter wasn't much better though.

 

[Move2CLT]

All true but please remember a FACT not often brought up....the West proposal placed 900 East WORKING crewmembers on the BOTTOM.
It is what it is...and it ain't what it ain't!!! (Old Blues song)

NICDOA
NPJB

Where were they prior to the merger?

Bottom? That's what I thought.

 

[Move2CLT]

One prob here dude....those hopeless unemployed would be nicely employed before NIC even rendered his decision. You are so spitefull you can't even remember BASIC facts. Guys like you are pathetic. Wallow in your own misery. We don't care.....but the way....those hopelessly unemplyed are close to holding a block and will be getting Captain bids in a few years....AHEAD OF YOU....AS IT SHOULD BE!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

And once we get the Nic, those block holders will be pushed into perpetual reserve.

AS IT SHOULD BE!!!