US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

Again, your theory about the last 4 airline arbritrations is skewed.

How many of those arbitrations went DOH?

They were all modified slotting and equipment and status.

Your understanding of the arbitrations is skewed by your personal greed.

 

[mrbreeze]

Amazing how no one else agrees with the east's position.

And who is that? You, as a desk monkey, and a half dozen of your greedy pals? You have to admit that the statement of 4 previous arbritrations is bogus.

breeze

 

[Phoenix]

You know trader,

I have to question your "four pilot arbritrations" theory.

In reality, only the NW/DL integration has been cruising along without much complaint. Could that be because the hire dates were pretty simililar and not that much off of a DOH SLI? Not to mention that DL management probably sweetened the pot before the deal was done.

In the Shuttle integration.....I believe that the arbitrator took into account the years that the Eastern pilots had under their belts, giving them a little more leeway.

As far as Republic/Frontier, well, that really worked out, eh? Frontier is being sold off.

So, that leaves us with our mess, which is yet resolved. Thinking about all this just furthers my resolve to stick with my guns.

Your arguement is distorted and weak. We are in untested waters here and I am willing to ride it out.

breeze

Four arbitrations... Arbitrations....

The white elephant in the room is the outsourcing... Outsourcing via ALPA trickery that not only was designed for them to shirk all responsibility but also got us to pay twice for the job they collected for but refused to do. Folks want to talk about reneging but can't see the elephant sitting in their favorite recliner with one foot ontop of the remote and the other on top of the chips and dip..

 

[N924PS]

In the CLT Domicile meeting today, the pilots were told there is proof that ALPA National is supplying funds to AOL and the west pilots to finance their legal fight. They have supplied between $500,000 and $1.2 million for the legal fees. I wonder if any of our ALPA fanatics on this side of the Mississippi are getting any financial help? Mark Minor says he is going to start a Card Check to bring ALPA back.

Our lawyer also said that the seniority dispute would have been over after the 9th Circuit Court overturned Judge Wake, but he said the company and the west pilots worked together on the Declaratory Judgement filings because they both benefited from it.

From another source I heard that the APA negotiators signed a deal with Scott Kirby yesterday at a town outside of PHX, for a hostile takeover with the help of Wallstreet. AMR CEO Horton is going nuts! AMR Management pilots are going back to the line. There will be a 7 yr fence.

Pay will be Delta Parity plus 3%. A319 will be paid in the MD-80 and B737 pay group. 190 pay will be Jetblue rates after two years along with all new hires and returning furloughed pilots. Pension will be US Airways 10% to their B Fund and 4% to the 401K. They would freeze the A Fund.

This post ranks right up there with "Mike Cleary is a true American Labor legend."

 

[mrbreeze]

How many of those arbitrations went DOH?

They were all modified slotting and equipment and status.

Your understanding of the arbitrations is skewed by your personal greed.

Slotting with DOH as the baseline.

DL/NW was clsoe enough in DOH, with the company sweetening the pot that no-one objected, legally.

Had the Shuttle pilots been 15 yrs junior, would there have been legal objections, hell yes!

The Frontier pilots were much more senior to the Republic pilots, so management decided not to continue with the merger.

That leaves us......and based on DOH, NIC screwed it up. It is the first time in these unchartered waters, and it will never go through.

So, give it up.....your 4 arbritrations theory sucks. It doesn't hold water.

breeze

 

[traderjake]

Slotting with DOH as the baseline.

You're wrong.

Equipment and status was the baseline.

 

[mrbreeze]

You're wrong.

Equipment and status was the baseline.

trader,

First of all, I hate to disagree with what I hope is a Razorback fan. However, even if you are right about the baseline, you're still just batting 50% with the DL/NW and the Shuttle.....so it's bogus. I suggest that you take another look at it all and consider DOH as the baseline.

I just can't sit here and go along with your "4 arbritration" theory.

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

Breezy,

You're wrong about Frontier/Republic too - Republic agreed to attempt to spin off Republic because it was a drain on Republic. Another "Let's try also being a mainline-type carrier" experiment bites the dust. Throw in the arbitrators decision is US/HP and you have 4 arbitrators in a row using relative position by equipment. You can make up excuses to explain it till the cows come home, but that doesn't change the facts.

Jim

 

[EastCheats]

trader,

First of all, I hate to disagree with what I hope is a Razorback fan.
breeze

What's the matter with being associated with winners? I looked and could not find the losers from Penn State when the final poll was released for 2011.

Rank Team Record Votes Previous
1 Alabama (55) 12-1 1,495 2
2 LSU (1) 13-1 1,425 1
3 Oklahoma State (4) 12-1 1,399 3
4 Oregon 12-2 1,250 6
5 Arkansas 11-2 1,198 7
6 USC 10-2 1,181 5
7 Stanford 11-2 1,167 4
8 Boise State 12-1 1,127 8
9 South Carolina 11-2 1,013 10
10 Wisconsin 11-3 905 9
11 Michigan State 11-3 873 12
12 Michigan 11-2 839 13
13 Baylor 10-3 780 15
14 TCU 11-2 653 16
15 Kansas State 10-3 621 11
16 Oklahoma 10-3 572 19
17 West Virginia 10-3 547 23
18 Houston 13-1 518 20
19 Georgia 10-4 439 18
20 Southern Miss 12-2 411 22
21 Virginia Tech 11-3 329 17
22 Clemson 10-4 188 14
23 Florida State 9-4 154 25
24 Nebraska 9-4 143 21
25 Cincinnati 10-3 103

Unranked:

USAPA
Penn State

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Complete and utter nonsense.

ALPA has done zip to support AoL. Why would they?

Alpo wouldn't even let an rEAL striker run a back page blurb in its rag about getting sued over trumped up Rico charges, but they are supporting Aol?

 

[mrbreeze]

Breezy,

You're wrong about Frontier/Republic too - Republic agreed to attempt to spin off Republic because it was a drain on Republic. Another "Let's try also being a mainline-type carrier" experiment bites the dust. Throw in the arbitrators decision is US/HP and you have 4 arbitrators in a row using relative position by equipment. You can make up excuses to explain it till the cows come home, but that doesn't change the facts.

Jim

I think you have a typo there, meaning Frontier. Regardless, the merger isn't going to happen, which had many objections from the Frontier pilots. Living in DEN, I have ridden in many of their cockpits and understand their position.

US/HP is still up in the air, so don't try and stack the deck.....you know it's bogus. So, out of 4....that's 50%.

Based on equipment....just your warped opinion.

breeze

 

[Move2CLT]

East on East violence - its getting uglier!!!

Participate, PHL!!

Tempe is Always Taking Our Pulse!

The PHL Domicile Vice Chairman Special Election is drawing to a close. We at The Compass Correction have been gratified and encouraged by the level of engagement and voter participation in our recent national officer election. A voter turnout near 90% is something that Management will certainly notice.

At PHL, several candidates are now vying for the Vice Chairmanship and regardless of whom one might be supporting; The Compass Correction Coalition encourages all PHL Pilots to cast a vote in this election. Unity of belief in our union and enthusiastic participation is mandatory for your union to be effective.

For anyone reading the updates from USAPA Headquarters, there can be little doubt that there is encouragement here of late, (the national election) and sadly, some things that simply still need to be changed.

For example; our last Compass Correction dealt with the artful waste of dues money by the Grievance Committee and the PHL Domicile Chairman. To review: Grievance Chairman Parrella held “Grievance Training” on March 27, 2012. The participants did not include a single elected representative!

Some additional points to ponder:

1) The PHL pilots did not choose or elect any of these participants to represent them and if pilots are going to be trained for this sort of work, they should be interviewed and properly vetted as qualified by the Officers and BPR. If this is going to become some sort of committee, or “extra” help, shouldn’t the most qualified, democratically selected candidates do this sort of job?

2) CLT and PHX are larger based than PHL, and neither of those based apparently need extra un-elected reps to do representational work in the Chief Pilots’ office, so why these three?

3) Unless our union policy has changed to have a committee of trained reps, this action violates current union policy. There is no language to support having un-elected reps.

4) There are no resolutions, either in the PHL domicile or at the BPR level authorizing the training of additional pilots for this type of work. This whole scheme was hatched by the PHL domicile Chairman!

Still untrained are: Duly Designated Representative from PHL, Jamie Weidner, Vice President Elect, Steve Bradford, Executive Vice President Elect, Steve Smyser, PHX Domicile Representatives Elect, John E. Scherff, Roger F. Velez, Jr. and David Simmons. ALL of the above men were in Charlotte and available for training, TWO-DAYS after the “Grievance Training” took place, in exactly the same locale.

Compass Correction originally projected that about $2,700 of your dues money was used in this training, (Flight Pay Loss for Paul Music). However, upon reading the April 13, “Grievance Update” we learned that Attorney Laura Backus and Para Legal Cathy McHale, Tracy Parrella and Grievance Vice Chairman Dennis Brennan all were called upon to give instruction to THREE NON-OFFICE HOLDING PILOTS.

This is the sort of spend-thrift, careless and irresponsible behavior that we hope and pray will become a fading, if painful memory, once the new Officers are seated and new Board Members take responsibility for oversight! That is the beauty of a democratic organization; the people who aren’t doing the job can be thanked for their efforts, ALONG WITH THEIR FRIENDS…and sent back to the Line, where USAPA’s true strength and leadership resides. The trick is, don’t elect their protégés, unless you want more of the same kind of reckless waste of dues money and unresponsive governance.

The USAPA situation for the last three years has been like a mini- General Services Administration; arrogant attitudes, loose with your money, along with a stunning lack of success. The only thing missing is the Hawaiian party…come to think of it, who really knows! Let us finish the “Extreme Makeover, Union Edition”.



So, vote, (we hope you already have) - as if our success (and dues money) depend upon it. The new leadership has some real issues to address and we do not want there to be any excuses, for a lack of execution. We at Compass Correction have great hopes and high expectations for the new Officers and a properly and duly elected Board of Pilot Representatives.

It all depends upon having competent and clear thinking Officers and Board members. If you need a practical example of what we mean; simply read and reflect upon the respective campaign letters from two of the candidates in the PHL Vice Chairman election, sent out on Monday morning. The rationality and clear thinking of one candidate contrasts with the accusative, excuse making of the other. This is a time for rational and responsible representatives. Read, think and then vote…..or re-vote!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Oops, you're right - Republic agreed to spin off Frontier...

Yeah, the "I know everyone everywhere" rationale...did Orville and Wilber tell you how unhappy they were when you were riding their jumpseat? If it were that simple Republic could just split Frontier back off to a separate carrier so why spin off Frontier? For that matter, why doesn't Parker spin off the east since all it takes is unhappy pilots to justify such actions? If you think Republic would do something just to please a few unhappy pilots you're smoking some strong s#@t...

So you're claiming that the arbitrators award is still up in the air? I could have sworn that it was presented to US and accepted. No wonder you're so wrong so much of the time...whatever world you live in is far removed from reality...

So it's 4 of 4 arbitrations.

Jim

 

[traderjake]

Regardless, the merger isn't going to happen, which had many objections from the Frontier pilots. Living in DEN, I have ridden in many of their cockpits and understand their position.

You mean the Frontier pilots who also objected to merging with Southwest?

Real men of genius.

 

[mrbreeze]

Oops, you're right - Republic agreed to spin off Frontier...

Yeah, the "I know everyone everywhere" rationale...if it were that simple Republic could just split the groups up so why spin off Frontier? For that matter, why doesn't Parker spin off the east since all it takes is unhappy pilots to justify such actions? If you think Republic would do something just to please a few unhappy pilots you're smoking some strong s#@t...

So you're claiming that the arbitrators award is still up in the air? I could have sworn that it was presented to US and accepted. No wonder you're so wrong so much of the time...whatever world you live in is far removed from reality...

So it's 4 of 4 arbitrations.

Jim

First of all, I understand your thinking.....spinning off Frontier was a corporate decision, either way, that takes them out of the "4 arbritration" equation. I do know that many Frontier pilots objected to the arbritration....not legally, but in expressing their feelings. After it was announced that they were going to be spun off, they were very relieved.

Again, I think the NW/DL arbritration was close enough to DOH that no-one objected, legally, along with management "making it work".

I believe that the Arbritrator in the Shuttle deal took into account the Eastern DOH, slotting them into USAir.

Now, here's us. Never has there been such a lopsided SLI, as far as DOH, experience, and time on the cockpit. Time will tell. Parker is greedy, so he didn't take the route that DL management took, of course....DL management learned from our screwed up deal.

There is just no way that the "4 arbritration" theory holds water. The best you can do is 50%, which was still based on a bottm line of DOH.

breeze