US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Why then a fence should be a grand idea shouldn't it?

Under the NIC, hundreds of unemployed West pilots can bid into East bases taking East jobs. The most awsome contract in the world is worthless if you're on the street - all the shiney pamphlets in the world fall on deaf ears over that one.

And Yes, yes I can afford to retire under LOA 93. Quite nicely in fact.

You are right. using DOH puts west pilots on the street. C&R mean nothing.


So tell us how 1700 furloughed east pilot keep what they brought to the merger using DOH?

 

[No Land Green]

You are right. using DOH puts west pilots on the street. C&R mean nothing.


So tell us how 1700 furloughed east pilot keep what they brought to the merger using DOH?

Are you afraid of a furlough?

 

[Metroyet]

Are you afraid of a furlough?

Historically, its "when" not "if" with us air. Why do you think the first officers are all so angry?

 

[767jetz]

Do you even work at LCC? As spun up as you are, you must.

Funny how when someone makes a point you don't like, they get labeled as "spun up."

Truth hurts, huh? It will also set you free! 😉

 

[767jetz]

If a furlough happens again those 3 month wonders deserve to be furloughed, Heck the 5 year wonders deserve it too.

And here in lies the problem. The East entitlement. You all cry "keep what you bring! That's all we want!" Until someone mentions that you should also keep your furloughed positions. (And the retirements that will happen from the right seat, or medical, that create no forward movement) Suddenly there is silence... followed by insults, crying, justifications, and anything to change the subject.

 

[LSS]

Easy to say – much harder to show proof that ALPA merger policy wasn’t met. Wait, didn’t the DL/NW merger use the same methodology? Yes, I think it did.

If I remember correctly... there were 3 (three) arbitrators in that merger.... not in just one person's hands!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

And here in lies the problem. The East entitlement. You all cry "keep what you bring! That's all we want!" Until someone mentions that you should also keep your furloughed positions. (And the retirements that will happen from the right seat, or medical, that create no forward movement) Suddenly there is silence... followed by insults, crying, justifications, and anything to change the subject.

What in the world are you talking about? Since the merger, ALL of the furloughees came back, plus some new hires. Now LCC is recalling/hiring AGAIN. Once those guys were recalled, they became entitled to EVERYTHING their seniority entitled them to. They are not painted with some kind of "scarlet letter" that makes them furlough fodder every time LCC has one into perpetuity.

DOH/LOS + C&Rs. It's the only FAIR AND LEGAL way.

BY the way, the cryin' ain't over at CAL/UAL either. Not for a long shot.

 

[Metroyet]

DOH/LOS + C&Rs. It's the only FAIR AND LEGAL way.

What are YOU talking about?

DOH was proven to be illegal in this case....remember?

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

Making progress are we? This conversation reminds me of Washington DC, alot gets said, alot of posturing, not much accomplished, its is exhausting to follow. I've made my share of idiotic posts, I am not preaching, just a comment. I think this may be as evolved as we are as a species, and I don't think we will evolve past this. Men who can rise above this rancor and lead us out of it are far and few between and none of them are here to help us. So enjoy another poke in the eye, We are all (no exceptions) a bunch of losers.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

What are YOU talking about?

DOH was proven to be illegal in this case....remember?

Exactly how, in your imaginitive interpretation of the past, did you come up with THAT? I think some urinating-for-dollars is in order for anyone that can in ANY WAY interpret what has occurred as anything resembling that.

Let me guess. You're not a witch. You're us.

I'm betting Judge Silver pitches this POS lawsuit out before Christmas.

 

[767jetz]

Well if ALPA National wasn't responsible for anything the US Air pilots or their reps did, I guess the millions of dollars they were getting every year wasn't very well deserved now was it?

Wow! You really have no idea how things work, do you? Do you blame the Federal Government when your local school board decides to eliminate one section of Physical Ed? I mean, hey... they are the ones who collect the taxes right?

ALPA (any union actually) is a democratic organization like any other. Even including pork and waste. No argument there. But ALPA national (and the dues money) goes to many things. Who do you think was the driving force behind the FAA duty time rule changes? Who is pushing for Crew Pass? There is political action work. There is accident investigation resources. There are legal resources to protect pilots from FAA enforcement action. etc. National also provides the structure for local governance. Beyond setting the ground rules (much the same way the McCaskil bill does) that leads to arbitration when 2 groups cannot resolve differences, ALPA National had no say whatsoever in the East or West strategy for seniority integration. That was completely the East pilots themselves. Their strategy. Their decisions. Their mess. And they knew full well going in what the rules were. They knew full well what their local leadership was like. No one raised an eyebrow until the result was not the one they wanted. Then the nuclear meltdown that we have today. Not once did anyone on the east take responsibility. Not once.

The East pilots don't want the West pilots jobs...they want the jobs they had.

And the jobs they didn't have. They want their furloughed plots to be protected from future downsizing. They want all the growth. They want all future benefits, using their own personal crystal ball to predict what will happen, until they are good and ready to retire. Then the west can have whatever is left over.

The other mergers are working because they are between Legacy Carriers...DL/NW - UA/CO
Each airline is a little more similar in size, length of service and history than HP and US are

More misinformation. The relative size of UA and CO are similar to the relative size of US and HP. DOH would instantly catapult me from 767 f/o to 767 captain overnight. Not only is it not fair, I will fight to not let it happen.

Unfortunately in this case a Legacy was merged with what amounts to a commuter airline.

You are really out of touch with reality. US a legacy airline? Maybe once upon a time. Maybe in theory. But in reality US's most western and most eastern hubs were in the same state for crying out loud. Talk about regional!

 

[Ames]

Stating I'm making a fool of myself would imply that I'm a fool would it not?

I'm not sure what you want Ames...want me to quote something from Nic or the trial verbatim? You're as capable of reading it as I am. Would that be enough to prove it to you? I don't feel like I have anything to prove, least of all to you.

Oh! The drama! I had this same conversation with my 15 year old today. She did something foolish and I told her she behaved like a fool and that I did not like her behavior. I did not call her a fool, nor did I say that I don't like her. She's 15. She gets it. Obviously you don't.

You are correct in that you don't have to prove anything to me. If you continue to post nonsense you are just proving something to everyone.

 

[cleardirect]

Exactly how, in your imaginitive interpretation of the past, did you come up with THAT? I think some urinating-for-dollars is in order for anyone that can in ANY WAY interpret what has occurred as anything resembling that.

Let me guess. You're not a witch. You're us.

I'm betting Judge Silver pitches this POS lawsuit out before Christmas.

Then what? If the companies case gets tossed (I agree BTW) what does the company do? Are we closer to a contract? The company keeps saying that the court will decide. What if the court chooses NOT to decide. It is then Parkers decision to make. Use Nicolau or not.


What does Parker do? Use Nicolau or DOH? Read the companies filings with a bit of unbiased and let us know.

 

[Ames]

The other mergers are working because they are between Legacy Carriers...DL/NW - UA/CO
Each airline is a little more similar in size, length of service and history than HP and US are
Unfortunately in this case a Legacy was merged with what amounts to a commuter airline. The East pilots shouldn't have to pay for YOUR career choice.

The utter and absolutel arrogance of this statement assures me that you are the "poser" I had assumed you to be. Quit pretending to be someone's wife, admit you were a furloughed fo when the acquisition occurred. You are a real treat! Amusing as hell but a treat just the same.

PS: Again, no facts. Opinion and emotion projectile vomited in no particular direction.

 

[Missfit]

ALPA pushing for duty rig changes with the FAA. It's about time, they're responsible for the ones in place as it is. Of course their idea of improved duty rigs and most pilots are a little different. Fly more and feel less fatigued, sure that makes sense.
Have you read the difference between what they're saying and what CAPA is saying? ALPA National will sign off on anything.
Prater and now Moak, they've never seen the company or FAA pass something across the table they didn't like.

How long have they been pushing for CREW Pass...and what exactly have they accomplished in all those years? Crews being subjected to invasive pat downs...sounds like success to me. Chalk another win up for ALPA. You're right, they're amazing not sure how all these other airlines survive without them.
It's a rose coloured world you live in.
ALPA hasn't accomplished much lately other than to become "The Whipsaw Union". How can they protect any airlines Scope when the represent the regionals that want to take the flying?

I like how UAL is trying to mess with CAL scope, I'm sure the United pilots are all for it, nothing like helping out your fellow airline pilot...it's the ALPA way.