US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvthe9]

That dismal abyss goes for both coasts. Speaking of which, some of the east pilots are drifting a little bit by arguing with the ground guys, they need to get back on topic, stroking each other over their big win on seniority.

You are right on the big win on seniority. Next maybe we get the big win on Loa 93 just to prove good prevails over evil. Karma at its' best. 😀

 

[oldiebutgoody]

That dismal abyss goes for both coasts. Speaking of which, some of the east pilots are drifting a little bit by arguing with the ground guys, they need to get back on topic, stroking each other over their big win on seniority.

Stroke each other for what? Keeping what they already had? PULEESE!

 

[luvthe9]

With their brand new big screen TV's and personal ipodsl

And remember, they get a nice big extra 8 hrs for working this upcoming holiday if they come in. And you helped! 😱

 

[delldude]

OKAY, but under the RLA some job actions are illegal, if you can give us a statement, anything where support of your job action by ALPA(SUX) was issued and disregarded it would make more sense, being sympathetic to a cause does not under thr RLA give a union the right to strike! MM!

LOL, I remember standing by the FAB in PIT while a taxiing aircraft crossed the ramp during the turmoil and the copilot and I made eye contact. I waved, he gave me the finger......That was the general consensus with ALPA support.

I believe that was about what our union officials received from ALPA when asked for support.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

As far as the 1992 IAM strike goes, I don't really think that ALPA handled it in the way it should have been (no big surprise there), but I do remember a couple of things:
1. The prevailing sentiment among Pilots and other groups that had already settled with the company for concessions (the AFA was the only group besides the IAM that hadn't settled at that time, and in fact, the AFA supported the IAM strike. I just don't remember the FAs having any impact on it.) was that the IAM was basically asking to keep what they had with very little, if any, give back. It was seen as the company using the concessions made by other groups to pay for the IAM's demand.
2. Many pilots were working under the "B" scale at the time, making less than a lot of the aircraft cleaners and rampers. Taking concessions was like a "double whammy" for them, since "B" scale pay and benefits sucked already without giving more. I can't say whether this is correct, but it was definitely a perception. The idea that they were giving up pay (I think it was something like 10% for 18 months or something like it) while another group went on strike to keep everything didn't sit well at all.

Now, before I get hammered, I will qualify this by saying I do not know if the pay/benefit comparisons were correct, just that this was a perception that was prevalent on the line.

 

[700UW]

In 92 most of the utility had three years on the property making like $13 an hour, please tell me how that is more than a B scale pilot. Top out pay was $16 an hour.

So your numbers are way off. So on based on a 40 hour week, top out pay was $33k a year, before taxes and benefits.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

In 92 most of the utility had three years on the property making like $13 an hour, please tell me how that is more than a B scale pilot. Top out pay was $16 an hour.

So your numbers are way off. So on based on a 40 hour week, top out pay was $33k a year, before taxes and benefits.

I knew that was coming. I didn't say they made less than ALL the cleaners or rampers. By the way, first year pilots, after they go to college, pay 50-75,000 dollars to get ratings AND pay their dues by working somewhere else like a commuter for 15,000-20,000/yr for two or three years STILL start here at $32,000/year, same as in the late 1980s. Plus, line pilots work WAAAY more than 40 hours a week.

Plus, pilots don't get overtime pay, holiday pay, etc. Let's see, over time for $16/hour is $24/hr, and holiday pay (double time) is 32. And at that time MOST of the Non flight crew types did a lot of that.

So, I guess I made my point.

 

[delldude]

He probably referring to OT money and such.

 

[700UW]

And that is working 16 hours a day, psychical work and working outside in the elements, not sitting in a cockpit. And you worked 12 to 15 days a month? We worked 20 days a month, plus having to work on days off if you wanted to earn extra money. And the average FO made what $90k a year and a Capt made $200k?

And yet we still paid the same for insurance when the average pilot made over three times the amount of pay than we did.

And the first four hours was time and a half, second four was double time. Holiday pay was time and one half, plus 8 hours straight pay or in lieu of that you got a comp day.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

And that is working 16 hours a day, psychical work, not sitting in a cockpit. And you worked 12 to 15 days a month? We worked 20 days a month, plus having to work on days off if you wanted to earn extra money. And the average FO made what $90k a year and a Capt made $200k?

And yet we still paid the same for insurance when the average pilot made over three times the amount of pay than we did.

WAAH! Nobody stopped YOU from being a pilot except yourself. You can go take out loans, get a college degree and get your licenses and ratings just like all the other pilots. I actually know many guys/gals that have worked the ramp, myself included (at an FBO), or been FAs that have done it.

Oh, and in 1992 Captains made a lot less than $200k/year. They STILL don't make near that much, at LCC anyway.

 

[700UW]

Thank God I dont fly anymore, I wouldnt want to be on a flight that your at the flight controls.

Typical when your proven wrong, you try to deflect and attack. Typical M.O.

Dont want to be a pilot, see my word means something and I know what Arbitration means. Now go finish your temper tantrum and take your bat and ball and go home till you can figure out how to win.

And I know many Utility who became mechanics, teachers, nurses and many other fields, see at the time having an IAM CBA we made more than lots of professionals.

Seems your the one who hates because of the gains we had in our CBA and your didnt.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Thank God I dont fly anymore, I wouldnt want to be on a flight that your at the flight controls.

Typical when your proven wrong, you try to deflect and attack. Typical M.O.

Dont want to be a pilot, see my word means something and I know what Arbitration means. Now go finish your temper tantrum and take your bat and ball and go home till you can figure out how to win.

And I know many Utility who became mechanics, teachers, nurses and many other fields, see at the time having an IAM CBA we made more than lots of professionals.

Seems your the one who hates because of the gains we had in our CBA and your didnt.

Show me ONE instance in my posts that I am wrong. YOU CAN'T.

YOU'RE THE CHILDISH ONE ATTACKING because you can't make your point.

I'm not the one having a temper tantrum, YOU ARE. If you don't want the pilot's perspective, then GO BACK TO THE IAM BOARD.

I hear that Ringling Brothers has some openings you might qualify for in Clown College.

 

[700UW]

Lets see:

You were wrong about why the IAM went on strike in 1992.

You were wrong on the concessions we took in 1992.

You were wrong on the staffing of mechanics at US Mainline Stations.

You were wrong about receipt and pushback.

You were wrong on Utility's earnings.

You were wrong on Overtime wages.

You were wrong on Holiday pay.

You were wrong on pilots crossing picket lines because of a sweetheart deal.

You were wrong about pilots cleaning planes during the 30 day cooling off period.

You were wrong about pilots performing struck work.

Do I need to continue?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Lets see:

You were wrong about why the IAM went on strike in 1992.

You were wrong on the concessions we took in 1992.

You were wrong on the staffing of mechanics at US Mainline Stations.

You were wrong about receipt and pushback.

You were wrong on Utility's earnings.

You were wrong on Overtime wages.

You were wrong on pilots crossing picket lines because of a sweetheart deal

You were wrong about pilots cleaning planes during the 30 day cooling off period.

You were wrong about pilots performing struck work.

Do I need to continue?

Why would pilots clean planes during the 30 day cooling off period, when nobody was on strike? Was the IAM performing an ILLEGAL job action by not doing their jobs during the "cooling off" period?

I specifically said that the pilots' feelings were due to perceptions, not necessarity reality.

As for the rest, YOU ARE WRONG, NOT ME.

Everyone reading this KNOWS I'm correct. Call your buddies and ask them.

I'm done with this discussion. It's too easy to win arguments with the challenged.

 

[700UW]

See there you go, you didnt dispute one fact and you attack and call names.

No wonder why Doug has you guys over a barrel and your the lowest paid out of any legacy carrier.

By the way I dont have to call anyone, I lived it and witnessed it with my own eyes. Go call VP Al Hemenway.