US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

C'mon OLDIE rember these are the guys that told us USAPA was DOA they would bancrupt the UNION by paying them all those dollars, and don't forget they are skilled negotiators! MM! http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/pressroom/pressreleases/2003/10-8-03_03.AWA4.htm

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You know I thought that you just ignored things on purpose. Now I believe that you are incapable of understanding even the simplest things.

STRIKE VOTE. That is different than a STRIKE. Taking a vote and walking a line. Different things. Come on you say you have been in the business a log time. Except you have the understanding of a new hire.

A STRIKE VOTE requires 50%+1 of all members. A non vote is a no vote. Can usapa manage to get 2000 yes votes to even go on strike when/if the NMB releases us. Doubtful!

What does that say about your beloved usapa? Incapable of even the simplest of tasks. Wandering in circles does nothing. So far that is all usapa has done. For 2.5 years wandered in circles. Best money you ever spent. Following a lost leader.

You and the three or four Nic lovers on here are the dense ones.

50+1 would be enough. The company knows it. So does USAPA. Don't participate, if it comes to that. Go ahead. Talk about integrity. I still see lists of "nonparticipaters" floating around from things that happened over 20 years ago. There's a group you'd be proud to join, I'm sure. Heck, maybe you're already a member, who knows?

What, you think you're SMARTER than a Flight Attendant or something? Well, I know from your posts that you're not. You are not, however, short of arrogance. Personally, I go with an expert when I need help with something as significant as this.

Go USAPA! Best money EVER spent! Mike Cleary is my hero!

 

[nic4us]

Has something changed in the last few days?

usapa filed another motion or something with the district court. I am not sure what is going on, but it appears they filed a motion against AOL in the company's DJ action over our response to their motion to have us removed from the case.

Again, I have not read it yet, and am trying to figure out what they are thinking. I do not know if they are just bringing up issues now, part of that res judica thing, that if they don't they lose the right to bring it up later, or if they are actually seeking sanctions against the AOL legal team.

I actually hope they are seeking sanctions. Would love nothing more than to have Polsinelli Shugart bury SSM&P to the point where they don't get to practice union busting anymore.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

usapa filed another motion or something with the district court. I am not sure what is going on, but it appears they filed a motion against AOL in the company's DJ action over our response to their motion to have us removed from the case.

Again, I have not read it yet, and am trying to figure out what they are thinking. I do not know if they are just bringing up issues now, part of that res judica thing, that if they don't they lose the right to bring it up later, or if they are actually seeking sanctions against the AOL legal team.

I actually hope they are seeking sanctions. Would love nothing more than to have Polsinelli Shugart bury SSM&P to the point where they don't get to practice union busting anymore.

Well why don't you read it? It would be a good start! MM!

 

[luvthe9]

Actually, a 50+1 vote would probably be MORE devastating to the company than if 100% went out. If the company were to have to guess which flights to operate, it could and likely would be VERY expensive for them, especially if customers started booking away due to the uncertainty. Many of those customers would NEVER be back. NO, I would expect the company to do a "lockout" and cancel the entire system. More predictable, allowing a better cost control for them. They could call it a "force majeure", since there is really no definition of what that is, and not pay anybody except management. Another thing they will do is try to time any job action to have a minimal effect on profits, say winter or fall.

The Pilots should get the FAs to help organize their "job action". The last FA action was the only really successful one on this property since I've been here, and that's a long time.

Remember even if half go out the other half won't have anything to do also. Teamster support will stop all fueling of aircraft and Patco won't be given any help with a clearance, trash won't be taken away. going to be ugly.

 

[Ames]

WRONG. Katz was ALPA's attorney. So was Freund.

Freund and Katz were each hired by respective west and east Merger Committees with Merger Fund Committee funds provided by the respective pilot groups. They were the attorneys for each PILOT GROUP.

 

[Ames]

Very sad to watch. The last PHX update reminded me of your inability to grasp reality.
[/quote}
We grasp the reality that Parker ACCEPTED the Nicolau list IN WRITING and paid each MEC $300,000.00 upon completion and acceptance of said list. That is the REALITY that Parker is fully aware of and the REALITY that the eastholes refuse to accept.

 

[Ames]

America West Pilots wages over the years

Who cares? They're higher than yours are now, and that's all that matters.

 

[Ames]

Hummm.... is right... I have the sneaking suspicion that Mr. Goat Shoap Video creator is none other than AWA320... His writings are very similar to that individual who posted on the ALPA boards...

Goat man was never a sitting rep and did not attend the post arbitration alpa arm twisting campaign. I have a good idea who 320 is. He was a rep. He was there for all of it. He's a bull in a china shop. He's a guy I will fight along side any day. Goat man is not well respected in our ranks.

 

[Ames]

You know I thought that you just ignored things on purpose. Now I believe that you are incapable of understanding even the simplest things.

With regards to oldiebutgoodie I am AMAZED that it took you this long to figure that out.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Very sad to watch. The last PHX update reminded me of your inability to grasp reality.

We grasp the reality that Parker ACCEPTED the Nicolau list IN WRITING and paid each MEC $300,000.00 upon completion and acceptance of said list. That is the REALITY that Parker is fully aware of and the REALITY that the eastholes refuse to accept.

I know that explaining it to you AGAIN will probably not have any better results, but please watch the latest PHX Crew News video, especially the part where Doug explains that all that was meant by "accepting the list" was that it met certain criteria spelled out by the company. He also says that a DOH list may, as well, meet those requirements, but that alphabetical would not. Then watch the part where he says that he is obligated to deal with the pilots' present bargaining agent. You know who that is, right? Thought so. It's NOT AOL, ALPA or has anything to do with either.

The Nic is DEAD. Parker told you so. Get over it.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

With regards to oldiebutgoodie I am AMAZED that it took you this long to figure that out.

I ignore stupidity.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Who cares? They're higher than yours are now, and that's all that matters.

Your correct we don't care enjoy YOUR attrition! MM That last statement kills me maybe it's that 2MILL buyers remorse thing!
1
threat, either, because the Company is not participating in making the seniority proposal.
Furthermore, there is no evidence of any Company participation, plan, or scheme to commit a
joint DFR. Its mere acceptance of a ratifiable seniority proposal will not create liability.10
Indeed, since the Company itself has alleged that it cannot be liable on a collusion theory (Doc.
1, ¶ 58), it should be estopped from making this inconsistent assertion.
Even if the Company were deemed to have “colluded” by accepting USAPA’s seniority
integration proposal, date of hire has a long history of being affirmed in DFR challenges.11 And
even then, where an agreed-to arbitration process has purportedly resolved a seniority
integration dispute, a union still retains the right to negotiate an alternative outcome. Associated
Transp., Inc., 185 NLRB 631, 635 (1970).
Irrespective of the potential merits of future claims by the co-defendants, mere threats of
future litigation – or mere history of past litigation – are not sufficient to create a justiciable
controversy. Md. Cas. Co., 312 U.S. at 273. The Company points to the vacated jury verdict in
Addington to support its contention that the “risk of such a lawsuit is not idle speculation.”
(Resp. 12:4). But the jury’s verdict in Addington does not substantiate any future litigation
threat against the Company, since the Company was dismissed from that case six months prior
to trial, and the Addington plaintiffs pointedly declined to pursue any claims against the
Company

 

[Ames]

I know that explaining it to you AGAIN will probably not have any better results, but please watch the latest PHX Crew News video, especially the part where Doug explainms that all that was meant by "accepting the list" was that it met certain criteria spelled out by the company. He also says that a DOH list may, as well, meet those requirements, but that alphabetical would not. Then watch the part where he says that he is obligated to deal with the pilots' present bargaining agent. You know who that is, right? Thought so. It's NOT AOL, ALPA or has anything to do with either.

The Nic is DEAD. Parker told you so. Get over it.

Doug also said that he often says things that aren't true, for effect. Funny how you hang on Doug's every word when it suits your argument. Get a copy of that letter and you can be SURE that DOH does not fit the 5 criteria. You can also be SURE that he did accept the Nic.

 

[Ames]

Your correct we don't care enjoy YOUR attrition! MM That last statement kills me maybe it's that 2MILL buyers remorse thing!
1
threat, either, because the Company is not participating in making the seniority proposal.
Furthermore, there is no evidence of any Company participation, plan, or scheme to commit a
joint DFR. Its mere acceptance of a ratifiable seniority proposal will not create liability.10
Indeed, since the Company itself has alleged that it cannot be liable on a collusion theory (Doc.
1, ¶ 58), it should be estopped from making this inconsistent assertion.
Even if the Company were deemed to have “colluded” by accepting USAPA’s seniority
integration proposal, date of hire has a long history of being affirmed in DFR challenges.11 And
even then, where an agreed-to arbitration process has purportedly resolved a seniority
integration dispute, a union still retains the right to negotiate an alternative outcome. Associated
Transp., Inc., 185 NLRB 631, 635 (1970).
Irrespective of the potential merits of future claims by the co-defendants, mere threats of
future litigation – or mere history of past litigation – are not sufficient to create a justiciable
controversy. Md. Cas. Co., 312 U.S. at 273. The Company points to the vacated jury verdict in
Addington to support its contention that the “risk of such a lawsuit is not idle speculation.”
(Resp. 12:4). But the jury’s verdict in Addington does not substantiate any future litigation
threat against the Company, since the Company was dismissed from that case six months prior
to trial, and the Addington plaintiffs pointedly declined to pursue any claims against the
Company

Does anybody have the decoder ring?