US Pilots Labor Discussion

[A320 Driver]

AWA made $30 million in the six months leading up to the merger and was projected to make money all year in 2005, yet AWA was apparently on the brink. How was that possible? (Not a rhetorical question...it has an answer so feel free to step right up and answer if you're brave enough and then you get the next question)

Ask Parker and Kirby. They are the ones that said it... MANY times. It's on several Crew News. Also, wonder what the West operation REALLY did in 2005 against it's projections?


Driver B)

 

[fodase]

The 9th said far more than "not ripe," notwithstanding the passionate, willful ignorance to the contrary.

The 9th laid out numerous statements of premise upon which they concluded "not ripe".

The 9th acknowledged "To be sure, the parties’ interest would be served by prompt resolution of the seniority dispute..." ("internal dispute")

However, they admitted that "the court [the 9th] cannot fashion a remedy." (the "Internal Arbitration", as the 9th called it, did not become an injunction. They refrained from intervention.)

And they acknowledged the result of refraining from judicial intervention (thought the court admitted it could not provide a remedy, the court laid out the future...) "we leave USAPA to bargain in good faith pursuant to its DFR...."

They acknowledged that "USAPA won the election and was certified as the collective bargaining representative for the entire group of pilots, East and West...."

Just watch PHX crew news if you have any doubt about who Doug believes he is legally required to bargain with.

The9th only ruled that it wasn't ripe period. A larger group changing unions and using it's larger numbers to subvert the minorities seniority is illegal in this country, and a violation of the rla. The 9th refused to look at the facts of the case.
BTW in the DJ Seeham won't be allowed to argue the fairness of the Nic.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Ask Parker and Kirby. They are the ones that said it... MANY times. It's on several Crew News. Also, wonder what the West operation REALLY did in 2005 against it's projections?


Driver B)

Ok...I'll take that answer and I'll finish it. Apparently there was a lot of money owed so despite having money in the bank and operating profits, jumbo loan payments were due a year or two later.

So, let's take this to the next step: as this is written today, what airline under any metric is among the most indebted airline among the majors? Anyone? Anyone? Buelller?

 

[A320 Driver]

Ok...I'll take that answer and I'll finish it. Apparently there was a lot of money owed so despite having money in the bank and operating profits, jumbo loan payments were due a year or two later.

Is that your round-a-bout way of saying the West lost money?

 

[A320 Driver]

Ok...I'll take that answer and I'll finish it. Apparently there was a lot of money owed so despite having money in the bank and operating profits, jumbo loan payments were due a year or two later.

Is that your round-a-bout way of saying the West lost money?

 

[Pi brat]

Just had a happy thought: another six years of LOA93... 😀

The prophets of financial disaster have me worried. I think I will present a motion at the next domicile meeting to provide the company financial relief for these troubled times. Of course I'm extremely fair minded, so I'm thinking loa 93 rates for the west. Whata ya think pre old girl?

 

[prechilill]

The prophets of financial disaster have me worried. I think I will present a motion at the next domicile meeting to provide the company financial relief for these troubled times. Of course I'm extremely fair minded, so I'm thinking loa 93 rates for the west. Whata ya think pre old girl?

I think you like LOA93- of course your options in life always have been severely limited...

 

[aquagreen73s]

Is that your round-a-bout way of saying the West lost money?

No...but Barrister seems to think that Parker is running an airline that is financially healthy despite having a mountain of debt. I'm just making the correlation to AWA's position: cash on hand + making money = bankruptcy??? Well, maybe so if the debt can't be serviced and if BK was possible with AWA, then it's possible for LCC. No?

 

[doh nogo]

Well, maybe so if the debt can't be serviced and if BK was possible with AWA, then it's possible for LCC. No?

Don't confuse them with logic aquagreen. It will mess up their neuro-pathways for days. How do you expect them to fly airplanes then?

 

[A320 Driver]

No...but Barrister seems to think that Parker is running an airline that is financially healthy despite having a mountain of debt. I'm just making the correlation to AWA's position: cash on hand + making money = bankruptcy??? Well, maybe so if the debt can't be serviced and if BK was possible with AWA, then it's possible for LCC. No?

Don't ask me... it was your boss that said it. The other day in PHX during Crew News, he said that outside of the merger, they would not have been in the room talking at this point. The inference being, AWA could not have mounted a sufficient defense against Southwest in primarily leisure markets to remain a going concern.

That was my read on it anyway. Been wrong before...doesn't scare me a bit.


Driver B)

 

[aquagreen73s]

I'll take that. It's not much of a leap to take paint LCC in the same position either. Just think of the implications a Ch11 filing has on labor.

 

[Phoenix]

.... He also knows about DFR. ...

Of course he does. Do you suppose it had anything to do with why the company was dismissed from Addington?

 

[nycbusdriver]

The whole industry sees what these people have done. You won't see one West pilot wearing their anti-union badge backers. I came across a story of how a SW pilot felt about it. These people have created an association which is a stain on unionism. :angry:


Had a SWA FO who was following the USAPA drama. He had a East pilot requesting the JS. Prior to going to the back he directed the JS rider to remove the "Scab" union pilot backer. Captain may let you ride but I am telling you NOT to expose our passengers to your scab attempt to undermine industry seniority norms. (UNION PILOT red badge backer)

I don't believe that for a second.

SWA pilot accusing USAPA of undermining "industry seniority norms?"

SWA STAPLES airlines they purchase (with their own money, mind you.) That is, until they purchased a union carrier (AirTran) post McCaskill-Bond. They can't get away with it this time.

So, that SWA pilot thinks their staple history of staple jobs is industry norm?

Any other stories you wish to concoct here? You should write fables for children.

 

[Phoenix]

The9th only ruled that it wasn't ripe period. ...

How many times to do you have to be reminded about your posting procedures? Start your posts with "Hey Clown" or "Hey Jackass."

.....

You are argueing..to do something the 9th specifically told usapa they cannot do, .....

Fodase already posted a response for you, but because of his poor posting procedures you missed it. He's contradicting you. You all need to get together and sort it out. Think of it as an internal thing. Get back to me. Be prepared to show your work.

 

[Code Name V]

Oh, you don't approve of me? That's the best you got? Sticks and stones? No relevant responses or even a coherent opinion? Just names?

Poor, poor you. Glad to see my presence here is having the desired effect on the dregs of the industry.

'The Desired Effect'? That about says it all, doesn't it? And you a totally independent thinker that just has an 'interest' is everyone else's business? Right! No one except an ALPA shill would even think to be here that didn't have a personal interest, much less one with thousands of posts to someone else's board.

Do you moonlight as a peeper too or does than not have the 'desired effect'?????

V