US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

Why would I believe a sucky movie with a fictional character to make descisions in my life?

Why would I let anyone other than me make decisions in my life, including my coworkers?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

1st. Wrong. Silver will tell the company and usapa use the or suffer the law suit.

2nd the Nicolau survives even in the next merger. It may not go into effect but it will be the list given to AA.

3rd. Using Nicolau we all suffer the same fate. So You east pilots are not going to get a better deal. Just closer to the door. Did you forget the those same 9000 AA dilute your vote and control? Usapa would be gone. East majority would be gone.

USAPA will go down in history...along with the Edsel and "new" Coke

 

[mrbreeze]

NICE win for the SUNS! congrats

 

[EastUS1]

A fictional character in a sucky movie said it better than I can:

That fails to surprise on any level.

Carry on "LT Hardy" 😉

 

[mrbreeze]

1st. Wrong. Silver will tell the company and usapa use the or suffer the law suit.

2nd the Nicolau survives even in the next merger. It may not go into effect but it will be the list given to AA.

3rd. Using Nicolau we all suffer the same fate. So You east pilots are not going to get a better deal. Just closer to the door. Did you forget the those same 9000 AA dilute your vote and control? Usapa would be gone. East majority would be gone.

We shall see, pal....good luck.

breeze

 

[traderjake]

That fails to surprise on any level.

Carry on "LT Hardy" 😉

...."thinks he is witty, does that make him clever, or just a delusional idiot?"

You disappoint nic4us. Long ago, one could count on some degree of rational and civil input within your postings. Lately?...well...Perhaps some in depth discourse with your like minded peers would serve to provide answer to your question:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INVoSS2thHw&feature=related

What ever you say "buthead" fan.

Congrats for another post sans "linguistic elegance".

 

[mrbreeze]

Why would I let anyone other than me make decisions in my life, including my coworkers?

well, I dunno trader....that is what I have been trying to figure out about you for months. Fictional characters and unproven theories about how SLIs have been worked out in the past don't seem to be your best forte.

breeze

 

[cleardirect]

all due respect, clear....

but why wouldn't the AA pilots want to put you even further down the SLI just to serve their own better? Give me one reason why they would want to give you the NIC.

Just trying to discuss....no offense.

breeze

I said AA wants all of us east and west as far down the list as they can.

Using the Nicolau they just have to take the top of one list and push down. Using 2 lists it is harder. How does usapa under penalty of DFR argue that west pilots should be put at the bottom the list while east pilots be placed near the top? Usapa has the responsibility to protect all us airways pilots. Usapa would get sued after the fact if the west gets less than what Nicolau gave us. APA taking on usapa would be held responsible. The AA pilots don't want that bill. Ever wonder why IBT will not talk to us? They don't want the legal fight.

APA does nor care about our fight or if an east or west pilots is senior or junior. They will view our list as one. They also don't need the legal fight. AOL will tell usapa, APA AA and us airways that anything other than the Nicolau will get them sued.

Lastly Parker is cheap. Usapa has told the court that straight DOH damages the west and needs C&R to make it fair. By definition C&R restrict the company. Restriction cost the company money. APA is not willing to give up money in their contract to pay for your advancement. Like I said before they don't care if a west pilot is senior to an east pilot. They are not going to get drug into a long expensive fight. Accept the Nicolau and it is done. Reject the Nicolau and American pilots live the 7 year fate as we have.

Their 9000 members are going to dictate how this goes. They want a contract not a fight.

 

[fatherabraham]

all due respect, clear....

but why wouldn't the AA pilots want to put you even further down the SLI just to serve their own better? Give me one reason why they would want to give you the NIC.

Just trying to discuss....no offense.

breeze

Breeze,

Question Not directed at me, but I have my doubts as well.

Human nature dictates that a AA pilot hired in late 80's ( for example ) would cringe at the notion of 90 plus % of westies ( all round # guesses ) being inserted above him/her in a DOH ( with C&R ) type sli with Nic being used as a New LCC integrated DOH list.

OTOH, a strait DOH ( with c&r ) with AAA and AWA ( presently unmerged ) would :
1. Give AA extremely quick capturing of all the attrition at AAA< AWA
2. AA better protect their junior/furlough ranks from the " relative " new hires at AWA
3. DOH for AA better protects them from merger related synergies ( furloughs )

FA

 

[fodase]

AOL will tell usapa, APA AA and us airways that anything other than the Nicolau will get them sued.

Point of correction, AOL already met with APA and served them with a letter detailing their legal liability if they mess with the nic. Funny to think aol is more involved in this than usapa

 

[mrbreeze]

Breeze,

Question Not directed at me, but I have my doubts as well.

Human nature dictates that a AA pilot hired in late 80's ( for example ) would cringe at the notion of 90 plus % of westies ( all round # guesses ) being inserted above him/her in a DOH ( with C&R ) type sli with Nic being used as a New LCC integrated DOH list.

OTOH, a strait DOH ( with c&r ) with AA and AWA ( presently unmerged ) would :
1. Give AAA extremely quick capturing of all the attrition at AAA< AWA
2. AA better protect their junior/furlough ranks from the " relatively " new hires at AWA
3. DOH for AA better protects them from merger related synergies ( furloughs )

FA

I agree....

the AA pilots are gonna see the NIC as a leap frog event for the West pilots, just as we have, so that won't be tolerated.

Using DOH with C&Rs will give the AA pilots an advantage over the West junior pilots, due to attrition.

Also, better furlough protection....sure.

AOL better have some balls of steel....or even better, just to get their DOH at AWA out of the deal.

breeze

 

[cleardirect]

Breeze,

Question Not directed at me, but I have my doubts as well.

Human nature dictates that a AA pilot hired in late 80's ( for example ) would cringe at the notion of 90 plus % of westies ( all round # guesses ) being inserted above him/her in a DOH ( with C&R ) type sli with Nic being used as a New LCC integrated DOH list.

OTOH, a strait DOH ( with c&r ) with AAA and AWA ( presently unmerged ) would :
1. Give AA extremely quick capturing of all the attrition at AAA< AWA
2. AA better protect their junior/furlough ranks from the " relative " new hires at AWA
3. DOH for AA better protects them from merger related synergies ( furloughs )

FA

DOH puts 90% of the east list senior to AA captains. Junior captain at AA hired in 1992. Any east pilot hired before 1992 would be senior to AA captain. How many 1992 captains does the east have?They are never going to go for that. The "gold standard" will not play at American.

By DOH M Baudernfeind seniority number 2863 who was 600 deep furloughed at the time of our merger would be senior to an AA captain. As a matter of fact that places him 1500 senior to the junior captain. Currently he is a 320 F/O. Honestly do you think APA is going to go for that?

Looking at the AA list there are only 3500 AA pilots hired before 3/90. Baudernfeind is 2863. That means that using DOH it would nearly be a 1/1 ratio east AA pilots. That would also put 700 AWA pilots senior to AA captains. APA is not going to agree to that.

APA is not going to care about your attrition and give up 5 years for you to get out of their way. They have their own attrition.

Do you think the APA is going to hand you DOH of fight like crazy for their "premium" wide body airplanes? DOH puts you in their WB.

Fences you say. A current east FO out bidding a current AA captain by DOH. Nope. APA wants their weekends ans daughters weddings off too.

 

[mrbreeze]

Point of correction, AOL already met with APA and served them with a letter detailing their legal liability if they mess with the nic. Funny to think aol is more involved in this than usapa

Yeah, right! The APA boys probably used the letter to light their cigars while driving back to DFW. Their conversation was something like...."(laughter).....hand me another beer, buddy"

Good luck, boys.....bed time here, later.

breeze

 

[fatherabraham]

DOH puts 90% of the east list senior to AA captains. Junior captain at AA hired in 1992. Any east pilot hired before 1992 would be senior to AA captain. How many 1992 captains does the east have?They are never going to go for that. The "gold standard" will not play at American.

APA is not going to care about your attrition and give up 5 years for you to get out of their way. They have their own attrition.

Clear,

IMO the East are not greedy and will not seek to take c/o slots from AA. Hence I believe C&Rs could be negotiated with the East.
I do not wanna step on a brother pilots back for my personal gain nor do I want your footprints on mine.

BTW, highly skeptical of your numbers. Just not prepared to argue them at this time.

FA

 

[mrbreeze]

my bad...disregard.