US Pilots' Labor Thread 6/9-6/16--PLEASE OBSERVE THE RULES

[BoeingBoy]

This will probably surprise a few people, but paying a USAPA officer who would be a blockholder 85 hours sounds perfectly acceptable to me. As long as no one starts gaming the system - getting 85 hours when they would be a reserve getting less if on the line or paying 85 hours at the highest rate they could hold vs what they would hold - I think USAPA is keeping it's promise. I never got the impression that USAPA's intent was to pay officers less than what they would make if they were line pilots, but to stop the abuses of paying more.

Jim

 

[hp_fa]

How much must one pay Continental pilots and Jetblue pilots in order for them to faithfully represent the interests of USAir pilots?

I think you and I would have differing opinions on the current benefit of having a US Airways pilot "faithfully" represent the interests of US Airways pilots.

 

[electricjet98]

From a recent USAPA PHL domicile update:

The Lump Sum Distribution Committee, including Mike Martin, and Roger Henriksson, presented the Board with their recommendations concerning the distribution of the two $35 Million payments coming due under the provisions of LOA 93. After numerous questions and suggestions from the Board, a few areas needing clarification were indicated. The Committee was tasked with completing the changes before the close of business on June 11th. This was in fact done, and after further review, the Board passed a Resolution to forward the two methodologies presented to the members to decide on in a referendum. Information regarding the two methods will be forthcoming shortly. The plan is to send this ballot out with the next regularly scheduled ballot. In short, one plan is based on a per capita, or equal share for all method, and the other is based on a W2 earnings method. As we are sure that many questions will surface, we ask that you wait until you have seen the written description of both plans until you contact the Committee or your Reps. The Board did add in the Resolution that it endorses the method based on an equal share distribution.

Question: How were the variuos paycuts & workrule changes distributed by loa 93? Unless they were also on an "equal share distribution" basis, in which everyone took an equal paycut, wouldn't a Lump Sum distribution constitute a windfall for those that took a smaller paycut than others? Are the same junior pilots that appealed to the senior pilots to support them in their endeavor to form USAPA and try to enforce DOH, now showing the senior pilots their gratitude?

 

[Elevation]

Can somebody link the Fall Marketing '09 file here? Has USAPA mentioned the hour reductions to the members yet?

 

[prechilill]

I think you and I would have differing opinions on the current benefit of having a US Airways pilot "faithfully" represent the interests of US Airways pilots.

Very succinct and cogent point. These guys out east are much worse for the west pilots than any ALPA "shills" we are warned about constantly by the disgruntled east. USAPA has been DFR'd, by a unanimous verdict of nine people no less. It is so hypocritical USAPA can even point a finger at ALPA complaining of any improprieties at this point. The one sided hypocrisy and absence of any acknowledgement of their own mistakes and misdeeds speak volumes about intent and even to a deeper level their character as a whole.

 

[Megasnoop]

Prater's total compensation as president of ALPA was over $550,000/yr. Cleary's compensation as president of USAPA is 75% lower. I would say the promise was fulfilled especially considering ALPA had over 100 six figure employees with ALPA paid full pensions and benefits including secretaries and office workers consuming over 60% of our dues monies. Underpants

Good point, Pants.

What USAPA pays out is now matter of record, unanimous approved in open BPR session, a far cry from ALPAs secret way of doing. Only ALPA President Darth Prater salary and full wage package is listed on the LM-2s. As an ALPA “employeeâ€￾ he gets compensation, not FPL. For MEC oinkers, their compensation shows $0, covered by FLP, which was a tightly guarded secret, not reported in the LM-2s. Once ALPA was gone, USAPA saw the dues statements for 2007, then did the math to some eye-opening numbers. Those are double-super-secret numbers, Im sure a violation of their privacy rights to disclose. One thing 2007 LM-2s reveal, Stephan got $56,417 from ALPA Natl for “Representational Activities and Schedule 19 Administrationâ€￾ alone. So for all the USAPA basher cheap-shot artists on both sides, not only are USAPA compensation a lot lower than ALPA, but there are a lot fewer getting paid.

BTW, current ALPA VP Paul Rice knocked out $186,000 in 2007 PLUS his FPL loss as a senior IAD 747 CA line holder. Since your so on top of all this, fa, what are his duties?

Elevation made the point that I was going to make, specifically that Prater (or whoever happens to be ALPA National's president) oversees many MEC's and the rest of the ALPA National infrastructures (including secretaries) also are there because they cover a lot of MEC's.

Now let me re-ask, wasn't one of the campaign promises of USAPA about lower compensation to these people? (ie-MEC/BPR leaders)

Glad to hear your not only a self-proclaimed legal expert with no dog in this fight, but also an expert on ALPA compensation and ALPA officer duties. Speaking of USAPA campaign promises, weve got 10 pilots doing full-time union work for 5,000 active pilots (plus furloughees), members or not. We’re pikers compaired to ALPA in total payout and numbers slopping down at the trough.

Oh, and speaking of secretaries, working for ALPA can be a rewarding experience. You got a UAL secretary in ORD knocking down over $100K, more than any UAL FO, Id guess. Youve got over 100 out of ALPAs roughly 450 full time non-pilot employees cashing in at over $100K/yr, PLUS a DB plan. hp, if your looking for trash on USAPA, compensation is a dead-end. snoop

 

[A320 Driver]

This will probably surprise a few people, but paying a USAPA officer who would be a blockholder 85 hours sounds perfectly acceptable to me. As long as no one starts gaming the system - getting 85 hours when they would be a reserve getting less if on the line or paying 85 hours at the highest rate they could hold vs what they would hold - I think USAPA is keeping it's promise. I never got the impression that USAPA's intent was to pay officers less than what they would make if they were line pilots, but to stop the abuses of paying more.

Jim

I agree with you. My complaint was my impression that they would have less "full timers". Seems like more and more of them are feeding at the FPL trough than was supposed to be. I don't have a problem with them being paid a block plus an overide.

Driver B)

 

[BoeingBoy]

I agree with you. My complaint was my impression that they would have less "full timers".

Some of that is event driven I assume. 1549 for those involved with the NTSB investigation. Maybe NAC with contract negotiations. Grievance people while greviences are being processed, especially at the arbitrator level. Etc. Hopefully not the start of a trend...

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Nope, not even close.

Oh,Oh, I know, but I don't don't think we are to put names or initials on here. I don't think the guy you are talking about would have a PI 727 on his screen, maybe a Smileliner.

What about points driver made? Do you disagree?

 

[ussnark]

.... by a unanimous verdict of nine people no less.

Haven't served as a juror, have you?

 

[A320 Driver]

Some of that is event driven I assume. 1549 for those involved with the NTSB investigation. Maybe NAC with contract negotiations. Grievance people while greviences are being processed, especially at the arbitrator level. Etc. Hopefully not the start of a trend...

Jim

Maybe, or maybe they are enjoying not being part of the "summer rush" in PHL waiting their turn for takeoff.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Haven't served as a juror, have you?

I assume you mean "go along to get along" so as not to make waves or to get it over with though not convinced. That doesn't change the fact that the jury verdict was unanimous 9-0. Each jury member was polled and individually each said that they agreed with the verdict.

Jim

 

[aquagreen73s]

Also, let us not forget that the arbitration panel agreed unanimously except for the one objection the East neutral had concerning recallees post PID. But overall, all three agreed to the entire integration concept. Finally, the East neutral went out of his way to gush about how great it was to serve on the panel with Mr. Nicolau and what a great job he did.

So the score is really running 12-0. Add three more judges from the 9th Circuit and that'll be the game: 15 to zip.

 

[hp_fa]

Glad to hear your not only a self-proclaimed legal expert with no dog in this fight, but also an expert on ALPA compensation and ALPA officer duties.

I don't have to be an ALPA member, let alone an expert, to figure that out.

As for being a legal expert I never claimed that was the case. I have claimed legal experience in litigation and civil procedure, but if you wish to elevate my status then that is your decision.

 

[Phoenix]

I think you and I would have differing opinions on the current benefit of having a US Airways pilot "faithfully" represent the interests of US Airways pilots.

Who would you suggest do so? Are you volunteering? Run for election!