JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

It's funny you say for years we argued about joining a union one of the things we feared most was the TWU/AA "B" scale.The whole industry thanks you for that one

It's funny you mention this, for years we argued whether to join a union or not. One of our biggest fears was the AA "B" scale. I'm sure there is a great history behind it. It is probably on scale with today's IAM Spirit contract

I think that was back in 1983. 12 years before I stepped foot through the door. And actually I only turned 18 in May of that year. At 18 I was still driving around in my buddy Danny's Skylark convertible picking up Metal chicks at Lamours East and getting hammered.

What the adults at AA "chose" to do back then has zero bearing on what I would have voted for or against as an old fart today.

 

[WeAAsles]

He would also want them to have free tuition to the private college of their choice

Since you made the comment and even though the Political contest is over. I'm a lot less liberal than you think. Probably close to 60, 40 in my views.

But if I want to waste my time with the back and forth garbage between a group of people who really have no influence whatsoever in the game and we can just throw rocks at each other, I'll take it up to the Water Cooler where it belongs. (The place I never bother with BTW)

Good luck to President elect Trump.

Moving on.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yeah benefited both, that's why you don't have it anymore

We DID abuse it to be honest. But when it wasn't abused by both us and management who doled it out like candy, it was an extremely valuable tool for making sure a flight went out on time.

It helped AA have much better DOT numbers and if it was a dump provided for much happier customers who didn't have to wait for their bags.

UAL now has similar language and I can guarantee it's going to come in quite handy for their operations.

But maybe this management team doesn't care about their numbers?

 

[Albert]

We DID abuse it to be honest. But when it wasn't abused by both us and management who doled it out like candy, it was an extremely valuable tool for making sure a flight went out on time.

It helped AA have much better DOT numbers and if it was a dump provided for much happier customers who didn't have to wait for their bags.

UAL now has similar language and I can guarantee it's going to come in quite handy for their operations.

But maybe this management team doesn't care about their numbers?

How about properly scheduling people? I'm not sure if I'm getting this. you know I'm here a long time and at one point we did have 200 mainline flights a LGA. I could count on my right hand how many times people from the morning shift were mandatory to work an hour or two

 

[WeAAsles]

How about properly scheduling people? I'm not sure if I'm getting this. you know I'm here a long time and at one point we did have 200 mainline flights a LGA. I could count on my right hand how many times people from the morning shift were mandatory to work an hour or two

Impossible when you work in our industry. There's always variables for example a weather delay, maintenance, crew goes illegal, late cleaning or catering, other. And many times they may not have the available manpower to get a flight out that now backed up to 9:10 for a crew getting off at 9:00.

That's where the Penalty Hour of OT came in handy. And it didn't create a bypass for people who signed up for OT if you offered people a full hour of OT to finish the task.

Many people won't accept that full hour if you ask them anyway.

A better solution would be to require the PH man to stay 20 or 30 minutes to receive the 1 full hour of pay and that would cut down on any abuse.

But again not sure if this management actually cares about their passengers or their DOT numbers anymore with the limitations on choices they have with all the mergers? Customer service could be an overrated commodity?

 

[WeAAsles]

How about properly scheduling people? I'm not sure if I'm getting this. you know I'm here a long time and at one point we did have 200 mainline flights a LGA. I could count on my right hand how many times people from the morning shift were mandatory to work an hour or two

Our contract has stipulations on how they can force mandatory OT and in some Locals they keep a very close eye on that.

And ALL people on that shift getting mandatory have to be given at least 2 hours.

Those mandatory white slip extensions are an even bigger waste of money than the Penalty Hours were. Can't tell you how many times I've sat on my arse doing nothing for 4 full hours? Literally nothing at all. Pure gravy waste and at least Local management is well aware of it.

Maybe the company negotiators aren't?

 

[AANOTOK]

Impossible when you work in our industry. There's always variables for example a weather delay, maintenance, crew goes illegal, late cleaning or catering, other. And many times they may not have the available manpower to get a flight out that now backed up to 9:10 for a crew getting off at 9:00.

That's where the Penalty Hour of OT came in handy. And it didn't create a bypass for people who signed up for OT if you offered people a full hour of OT to finish the task.

Many people won't accept that full hour if you ask them anyway.

A better solution would be to require the PH man to stay 20 or 30 minutes to receive the 1 full hour of pay and that would cut down on any abuse.

But again not sure if this management actually cares about their passengers or their DOT numbers anymore with the limitations on choices they have with all the mergers? Customer service could be an overrated commodity?

To add to the penalty hour Al, back in 2003 before we generously gave everything unions had worked for over the past 70 years, PH was you stayed seven minutes (of course get the task done) and you were paid the full hour. If I got off a 10:00 and the plane was going out at 9:59, they would ask me to push the plane out for PH. Punch out a 10:07 and I was paid one hour at time and one half. Back in the day I kid you not, some shifts were set up where someone got a penalty hour every single day. Some people knew how to play the system AA created. Same thing with paid lunches.

 

[AANOTOK]

Not sure how it works at US, but the tone AA has taken in recent years where they intimidate for a sick call, make you jump through hoops to prove you were hurt at work and then only allow you 10 days workers comp, then make you do cross training to come back to work, only after fighting with the AA doctor. I will never be apologetic for the money (every cent) I get out of AA. Those days are long gone.

 

[WeAAsles]

To add to the penalty hour Al, back in 2003 before we generously gave everything unions had worked for over the past 70 years, PH was you stayed seven minutes (of course get the task done) and you were paid the full hour. If I got off a 10:00 and the plane was going out at 9:59, they would ask me to push the plane out for PH. Punch out a 10:07 and I was paid one hour at time and one half. Back in the day I kid you not, some shifts were set up where someone got a penalty hour every single day. Some people knew how to play the system AA created. Same thing with paid lunches.

Guilty as charged myself. Got it everyday for a whole bid because we got a CC from here in MIA who came in and had zero clue how to ask for help and schedule lunches.

When I started to call the coordinator behind his back is when he (and management) offered it to me to just keep doing what I was doing. I became the de facto behind the scenes CC.

But again management gave it to me in return for a smooth no problem now gate. Was he right or wrong to make that call? Wasn't my place and I wasn't going to argue.

 

[AANOTOK]

When I watched Parker just other day say AA will always make billions and we will never hear them say they can't afford that, then sit here and refuse to even respond to proposals in the contract, the hell with him.

 

[Albert]

When I watched Parker just other day say AA will always make billions and we will never hear them say they can't afford that, then sit here and refuse to even respond to proposals in the contract, the hell with him.

We usually had over laping shifts so we really never saw that. and up in NYC gate space was a premium so there was always someone to work the gate. We didn't "dispatch" we usually worked a team or a gate. I wouldn't vote no to get paid $45 to stay ten minutes

 

[NYer]

I understand what you are saying and there is a certain logic to it however, from what I have observed many people take a part time job at American Airlines with their primary motivation for doing so being insurance. PT with a goal of upgrading to FT would most likely take part in the insurance plan.

To tell the truth NYer I have mixed feelings on this subject. I understand the membership's goal of keeping insurance affordable, but I also question saddling someone with insurance cost when they may already have insurance from another source (full time job, spouse).

I ran into that when I hired into American Airlines. I already had insurance (better and cheaper) through my wife's employer. I was told I had to take American Airlines insurance as a condition of employment. Was that fair to me to force a higher cost plan on me as a condition of employment when I got no benefit from it and was already insured?

I think this is one of those issues where there really is no right answer.

I guess at the end of the day you have to ask yourself if the benefit you receive from forced participation justifies the burden you are placing on the individual.

For whatever it is worth I doubt you would see a max exodus of insurance participants from part time workers.

Taking the insurance helps everyone else as their medical becomes more affordable. If we want to look at this from the perspective of an individual, then you can see it from your point of view.

I'd rather see it at a macro level where everyone is contributing to everyone else, whether it is by keeping the medical lower or raising wages by way of collective bargaining.

Individualism takes us lower, collectivism takes us higher.

 

[WeAAsles]

We usually had over laping shifts so we really never saw that. and up in NYC gate space was a premium so there was always someone to work the gate. We didn't "dispatch" we usually worked a team or a gate. I wouldn't vote no to get paid $45 to stay ten minutes

In small stations if you're not gate manned you wouldn't be offered as many PH as a Hub honestly. You do have just a little more flexibility to move people around our if that central locations.

But even 20 years ago I still remember planes sitting and waiting for people to work them. Airlines rarely want to overstaff to accommodate the out of the ordinary situations.

And believe it or not we did have people refuse the PH back when I was in DFW. Mostly if it was going to go past 15 minutes or so. At $45.00 per hour you'll never see me refuse even if it wound up being 55 minutes.

But again that's up to the company negotiators if they want that smooth operation or not? (Am I harping on the subject a little)

 

[Kev3188]

I used to have a guy refuse almost every morning (they were called "short hours" at NW), and these were for, like, 10-15 minutes...

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Can't tell you how many times I've sat on my arse doing nothing for 4 full hours? Literally nothing at all.

A minimum of twice a day everyday? I mean you have to have a lunch break right?

At least that is the picture I get from comments made on these forums from those who have had to endure a work day with you.