JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Individualism takes us lower, collectivism takes us higher.

I understand forcing participation in the insurance program lowers overall cost. Having been on the bad side of that equation however I don't know that I agree with forced participation. When I started with American Airlines I was making $7 an hour and the burden of AA insurance was a burden I did not need at the time. However had I needed insurance it would have been worse had it been even more expensive.

Again I don't think there really is a "right" answer to this complex problem.

I guess in this instance I will have to concede that most likely not requiring insurance would put me in a minority status and forced participation has more overall benefit than con.

 

[john john]

Maybe it should go the other way, the people being forced to downgrade keep their insurance. And here at LUS over the years we had many downgraded. If they kept their insurance maybe the company wouldn't be so quick to down grade, anyway those are the people I feel for

CWA had language in their contract that if you were involuntary down graded to part-time you got to keep your fulltime insurances. This language has since been removed

 

[NYer]

I understand forcing participation in the insurance program lowers overall cost. Having been on the bad side of that equation however I don't know that I agree with forced participation. When I started with American Airlines I was making $7 an hour and the burden of AA insurance was a burden I did not need at the time. However had I needed insurance it would have been worse had it been even more expensive.

Again I don't think there really is a "right" answer to this complex problem.

I guess in this instance I will have to concede that most likely not requiring insurance would put me in a minority status and forced participation has more overall benefit than con.

Someone may not need the insurance at some point, but when they do need it, they will benefit at having something that should more economical than if participation was as needed.

Everyone hates to pay for car insurance until they need it.

 

[T5towbar]

Impossible when you work in our industry. There's always variables for example a weather delay, maintenance, crew goes illegal, late cleaning or catering, other. And many times they may not have the available manpower to get a flight out that now backed up to 9:10 for a crew getting off at 9:00.

That's where the Penalty Hour of OT came in handy. And it didn't create a bypass for people who signed up for OT if you offered people a full hour of OT to finish the task.

Many people won't accept that full hour if you ask them anyway.

A better solution would be to require the PH man to stay 20 or 30 minutes to receive the 1 full hour of pay and that would cut down on any abuse.

But again not sure if this management actually cares about their passengers or their DOT numbers anymore with the limitations on choices they have with all the mergers? Customer service could be an overrated commodity?

The "Penalty Hour" (or we call it "Task Completion") IMHO is a good thing. If everyone left at their designated hours and no Mando was called, who is going to do the work of closing out the night. You can't account for late flights; flight crews timing out; and other factors - like the flight crew taking a longer time than normal to push off. So that's not free. No one volunteers to stay late - and why should you -since you get that hour to complete your task. And since I work the PM shift, I'm usually closing out the night, and get that extra hour every night. And at my hub, it was pretty much guaranteed!

My motto is "Charity Begins In The Home - Not In The Workplace!"

 

[WeAAsles]

CWA had language in their contract that if you were involuntary down graded to part-time you got to keep your fulltime insurances. This language has since been removed

I keep hearing everyone say that AA management wants us all under the same plan, theirs. But I really don't think that's the case since the CWA has an agreement with the company to look into other medical plans out there and maybe incorporate them?

http://american-agents.org/news/healthcare-update/

Medical plans seem to be in a constant state of flux and what a Republican held Government is going to mean as far as changes to the ACA we have to wait and see? The Cadillac tax had already been pushed back to 2020 and that will probably be gone entirely soon. But I think the company is willing to entertain all ideas over time that groups can come up with if it brings costs for both us and the company down?

The best choice would be to have everyone in the company under the same plans because the more people active under those plans the lower the costs will be.

Under the CWA contract all new hires will automatically default to the CORE plan unless they choose otherwise or opt out totally. But yes for all of those in the company who opt out the more costly it will be for those of us who remain in.

Overall in General unless maybe you're married to a spouse in the medical field (and even then some not) we have some excellent Medical plans. I rarely hear from talking to multiple people that they have a better plan outside of what AA offers even if our monthly cost seems insane to them.

For 2017 the CWA is to pay 21% of the total cost of the medical AA provides. And even with that 2 of the 3 plans costs went down (Because there's more people in now)

I think the company is waiting for the Association to finish our negotiations before they can maybe find or draft a proposal that will be for the benefit of ALL of us?

 

[WeAAsles]

The "Penalty Hour" (or we call it "Task Completion") IMHO is a good thing. If everyone left at their designated hours and no Mando was called, who is going to do the work of closing out the night. You can't account for late flights; flight crews timing out; and other factors - like the flight crew taking a longer time than normal to push off. So that's not free. No one volunteers to stay late - and why should you -since you get that hour to complete your task. And since I work the PM shift, I'm usually closing out the night, and get that extra hour every night. And at my hub, it was pretty much guaranteed!

My motto is "Charity Begins In The Home - Not In The Workplace!"

T5 as I read your "Task Completion" language what I took away from it was that either your negotiators made a mistake or the company didn't agree to a piece that concerned me?

You're given one task to complete and the company cannot give you any other tasks. But if that task only takes you 15 minutes of the total time, management can still require you not to leave for one full hour as I read it?

Have they been making you stay the full hour or have they been releasing you after the job is done? And as I also read it, it also looked to me like they can force you to stay for an hour every night if they wanted? Was I correct in how I read it?

The way ours used to work they had to ask you if you wanted a PH and when the task was completed you could go home and be paid a full hour of OT.

Obviously to me what we "used" to have is preferable.

 

[WeAAsles]

If I'm right T5 and they are holding you every night essentially you now are working 47 1/2 hours per week. Your 40, plus the 5, plus your 30 minutes unpaid lunch per day.

Seems like the company may be paying you more because of that hour but they gained in productivity by having you there longer.

Not saying that I'd be complaining financially since my BASE now is $63,000 and that extra (survivable) Hour would tack on another almost $12,000 to that for the year.

 

[NYer]

I keep hearing everyone say that AA management wants us all under the same plan, theirs. But I really don't think that's the case since the CWA has an agreement with the company to look into other medical plans out there and maybe incorporate them?

http://american-agents.org/news/healthcare-update/

Medical plans seem to be in a constant state of flux and what a Republican held Government is going to mean as far as changes to the ACA we have to wait and see? The Cadillac tax had already been pushed back to 2020 and that will probably be gone entirely soon. But I think the company is willing to entertain all ideas over time that groups can come up with if it brings costs for both us and the company down?

The best choice would be to have everyone in the company under the same plans because the more people active under those plans the lower the costs will be.

Under the CWA contract all new hires will automatically default to the CORE plan unless they choose otherwise or opt out totally. But yes for all of those in the company who opt out the more costly it will be for those of us who remain in.

Overall in General unless maybe you're married to a spouse in the medical field (and even then some not) we have some excellent Medical plans. I rarely hear from talking to multiple people that they have a better plan outside of what AA offers even if our monthly cost seems insane to them.

For 2017 the CWA is to pay 21% of the total cost of the medical AA provides. And even with that 2 of the 3 plans costs went down (Because there's more people in now)

I think the company is waiting for the Association to finish our negotiations before they can maybe find or draft a proposal that will be for the benefit of ALL of us?

So naive.

 

[WeAAsles]

So naive.

You blow for some people all credibility when you can't debate (me in particular) an opinion written.

I watch constantly as you take one step forward and then take two steps back.

If you can't or refuse to have a civil debate, conversation or opinion then maybe you should try a different hobby?

 

[NYer]

You blow for some people all credibility when you can't debate (me in particular) an opinion written.

I watch constantly as you take one step forward and then take two steps back.

If you can't or refuse to have a civil debate, conversation or opinion then maybe you should try a different hobby?

You understand that you're writing this on a blog where people know you and see how you turn a conversation into an insult laden diatribe. Right?

 

[Talos]

When I watched Parker just other day say AA will always make billions and we will never hear them say they can't afford that, then sit here and refuse to even respond to proposals in the contract, the hell with him.

This is a serious problem we have as members, hearing this kind of stuff and then how difficult it is for the NC to deal with the company. I'm bewildered and disturbed at this. Should it be so hard to get what many others in the industry already have, such as more holidays, better holiday pay and more jobs to go with it. How it can take this long to come up with so little is mind boggling. Something is very wrong and needs to be addressed by the unions and members. What a crock of excrement.

 

[WeAAsles]

You understand that you're writing this on a blog where people know you and see how you turn a conversation into an insult laden diatribe. Right?

Purely not meant to be an insult rather than an expression of my disappointment with you.

You are without a doubt one of the most intelligent people I know concerning many issues. So when I get a response from you "so naive" it has to give me pause to think why do you respond to me that way?

Either you want to attempt to minimize my comment or you're looking to aggravate and pick a fight? So which one is it?

I hope I don't intimidate you because that's never been my intention.

 

[NYer]

This is a serious problem we have as members, hearing this kind of stuff and then how difficult it is for the NC to deal with the company. I'm bewildered and disturbed at this. Should it be so hard to get what many others in the industry already have, such as more holidays, better holiday pay and more jobs to go with it. How it can take this long to come up with so little is mind boggling. Something is very wrong and needs to be addressed by the unions and members. What a crock of excrement.

It seems the bigger issue is the actual language and not necessarily the amount of holidays, for example. The most difficult part of a negotiations is the actual language and the intent behind the language. The cultures at the IAM and TWU are very different as were the cultures at AMR and US Airways. Trying to meld all that is not an easy or quick task.

But I agree how the level of frustration can grow without having more meat on the explanations received after a negotiating session ends.

 

[NYer]

Purely not meant to be an insult rather than an expression of my disappointment with you.

You are without a doubt one of the most intelligent people I know concerning many issues. So when I get a response from you "so naive" it has to give me pause to think why do you respond to me that way?

Either you want to attempt to minimize my comment or you're looking to aggravate and pick a fight? So which one is it?

I hope I don't intimidate you because that's never been my intention.

Because despite answering questions on a regular basis, you tend to want to believe your own explanations that have no basis in anything other than fantasy.

The CWA is not going to get another medical plan. The language that speaks on that has no teeth and as long as the Company goes through the motions of looking (fulfilling their good faith effort), they will fulfill their contractual obligations. The Company has not invested their time and effort in getting everyone into the same plan, just to give it away now.

It's not happening, just like it isn't happening that we are getting a JCBA by the end of the year, as you predicted.

 

[WeAAsles]

Because despite answering questions on a regular basis, you tend to want to believe your own explanations that have no basis in anything other than fantasy.

The CWA is not going to get another medical plan. The language that speaks on that has no teeth and as long as the Company goes through the motions of looking (fulfilling their good faith effort), they will fulfill their contractual obligations. The Company has not invested their time and effort in getting everyone into the same plan, just to give it away now.

It's not happening, just like it isn't happening that we are getting a JCBA by the end of the year, as you predicted.

Actually I originally thought May remember. I was WAY off. But you can keep reminding me if it brings you comfort.

Otherwise that was a good assessment of your opinion and could very well be a fact once this all plays out? We'll see?

Curious do you know or have ever spoken to a man named Tom Reagan within the IAM? He's the man who found and searches for good medical plans.

Are you stone cold adamant that we will end up in the AA plans or can you give your mind even an inch of room for doubts?