AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[OP Taylor]

Solving problems? here is an idea! How about showing support to the JNC officials that were elected, that is solving a HUGE problem with this airline. Whether or not you agree these people were voted into their postions by the majority. Be United and support each other and our Union officials. We are hardly united, yes pass around the petition to recall MF and CA, or the petition about staying with the pilots. Even worse, start spreading lies and propaganda about a TA that hasnt even been presented to the workforce. You really want to solve a problem, support our UNION. FACT, not everyone is going to be happy with what is negotiated and if you dont get what you want then move on! There are almost 6000 flight attendants at US AIRWAYS do you think for a moment any single contract in the history of negotable contracts will make THIS entire workforce happy? Be grateful we have hard working members working and volunteering to take care of union memebers and every time you sling mud and minimize our JNC efforts you errode our leadership and the councils. Perhaps attending the one of the roadshows, taking notes and having first hand information rather than.. " I heard on my Lisbon flight from a flight attendant who knows someone in the union who said we are...." This forum serves a purpose with sharing ideas and frustrations and coming to a resolution. It seem to me it has become the victimized US AIRWAYS flight attendant forum. And yes, perhaps I made a generalization when I said "you" to travelpro, but that was more of a reference to the "bitter" workforce as a whole. There was a strory I heard when I first started in the 90s. Carl Ichan was dealing with striking flight attendants when he was at TWA. The story goes, someone asked him how he was going to deal with the labor problem (striking flight attendants). He took this person to window of his office and pointed down to the street and pointed out random people and said, that person is a flight attendant, as that person and that person. We all know how that turned out over there. When I say we are replacable, we are, Im not saying that to invoke fear but point out a fact, plain and simple. Im not saying roll over and play dead, however those legacy airline days are loooooog gone with pensions, 6 flight attendants on an A321, A scale B scale as well as the "profesional" aspect. Profesional? Im lucky if is see a US AIRWAYS flight attendant not making up their own appearance guidlines and uniform standards, doing ALL suggested services, and even more importantly actually smiling. If you are here because you love this job, love to travel, appreciate the flexabilty and being an absentee employee than great, if you are here to get rich than move right along. One more question do you think in a MILLION years the traveling public with support any work action by US AIRWAYS flight attendants? LOL, Most people would see it as a blessing if we simply disappeared. I love this job, my co-workers but I dont have any lofty expectations that things will EVER be what they were.

Aztec, You seem to be showing your true colors in this post. You sound like one of those flight attendants who signs up for those company endorsed focus groups ( corporate Kool-aid stands ). You seem to be all over here. Out of one side of your mouth you cry UNION and UNITY and yet you trash your own flight attendant group. It appears to me that some are becoming aggravated by those flight attendants who are now taking time to be educated as to what is really happening within their Union and company. Debbie Downer has no doubt hit some nerve points with some. There seems to be a real movement going on within our Union. And yes WE are the Union. You mention the flight attendants need to support our JNC. I believe if you take a good look around at many of your Union officers you will find we have been supporting them for many years. That is our Union dues going to financially support those who came to work as flight attendants who are now Union representatives. Some of those holding Union positions claim entitlement through years of service. They feel their many years of service entitles them to a " LIFETIME APPOINTMENT". This is not the Supreme Court. These are, as you so diplomatically point out, unskilled flight attendants who can be "replaced". So the makers of the "Kool-aid company" seem to have made quite an impression on you and others . Take another sip and tell everyone how "lucky they are to have a job" . You need to bring that low self esteem up a level and realize the company is also lucky to have some very dedicated and loyal employees who were willing to fund a mismanaged company via two bankruptcies. In retrospect you can see Debbie Downer is 100% correct. This arrogance of this JNC to ignore their flight attendants will be their own demise. The arrogance of the Local reps to ignore the messages of their local memberships will be their demise. I am proud of our flight attendant membership. They are now banding together for one common cause, a contract they can LIVE and RETIRE under. You my friend are in the minority with your " Corporate" agenda. You indicate we are ALL unskilled laborers. Just ask around and see how many very well educated flight attendants we have at US Airways. Probably more educated than most sitting in offices in the "Cactus Congress".

I will support my JNC when they support me by listening to my needs. Granted we arent going to end up with everything we want but there are issues that the JNC have full knowledge that are unacceptable to the flight attendants and don't seem to care. MF's philosophy that the JNC needs to negotiate a contract that will ratify by the lineholders since the reserves are only less than 20%. I think what is a real eye opener is the UNITY among the lineholders and reserves this time around. Lineholders are supporting reserves which will present a problem to the JNC in trying to push through another CONCESSIONARY CONTRACT.

Remember when you are trashing Debbie Downer, you are really trashing the majority of this Union membership. Open your eyes and watch this movement pass you by as you are in the MINORITY.

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

Flight Attendants are considered skilled labor by the DOL and you all need to hire Teddy as a consultant and part of the Negotiating Committee, when Mike back-stabbed her you lost the best union leader on the property.

 

[flygirl74]

WOW, talk about out to lunch. Well, at least I know that most are coming together to DEMAND what is theirs when it comes to better contract language. NOBODY is backing down and taking your (aztecca's) fear and intimidation. You may call it reality but it's pumping fear into people and supporting the JNC in telling the membership that, "This is all your worth", "be thankful you got what's been negotiated". I find it amazing how "OhReally" and "AztecMystic" just appear out of nowhere. Hmmm now if only we knew where Mike and Carol were. Oh wait that pesky "union closing" wife too. NIGHT! 🙄

I was thinking the same thing! Kinda clever with the Aztec part to make us think that they are from the West. B)

 

[galley princess]

These long histrionic posts are getting too much to read.

1. Anyone and most likely Company minions can post here. Depressing expectations is part of the game.

2. Expecting and pursuing a favorable agreement is not "disloyalty" or being a bad employee. These are contract negotiations. It also does not mean that you're a bad union member.

3. Voting down a deficient agreement is not only every F/A's prerogative, but also a message to the company that this group doesn't just roll over an play dead. US F/As have a RIGHT to a favorable agreement.

4. US' reputation is pretty shredded. While they can certainly respond to strikes with replacement employees, it's expensive and a big PR negative. You have Team Tempe desperately trying to make their millions with US. They've already been deprived of opportunities due to flushing US' name down the toilet, more bad publicity just throws another road block in their way. Will they do it anyway? Maybe, but nothing new there. Also, keep in mind how CHAOS works. You aren't talking about a mass walkout. Harder to respond to.

5. Unskilled labor? I beg to differ. Quietly, many F/As have pursued masters, sidelines and other projects to either bridge the huge gap in compensation or just give peace of mind. We are not the same people caught off guard in 2001. And the bulk of the numbers are on their -albeit slow- way to retirement. Not so easy to push around.

6. Finally? Bring it. Nothing can make me settle for inferior agreement ever again.

 

[Onestep2flt]

Flight Attendants are considered skilled labor by the DOL and you all need to hire Teddy as a consultant and part of the Negotiating Committee, when Mike back-stabbed her you lost the best union leader on the property.

I might agree with this but think a labor attorney and contract lawyer may be an even better addition. It seems the AFA "staff" attorney is out to lunch somewhere. Although, Teddy is the definition of a true unionist that seemed to care for ALL the flight attendants she represented.

You guys have definitely struck some nerves here as all the new posters are coming out spreading FUD about changing the guard. I have to say that the grassroots efforts do seem to be attracting a lot of people. The word of warning that I would give is don't become to confident. There are a few here I can see true passion to take back their union. (which by the way, is totally different from those that have come here to say you should support your union and it's negotiators. YOU GUYS ARE THE UNION and that is what the old guard does not seem to understand) Anyway, my warning would be though there are many people that are energized to get change, there are just as many that do not give two hoots to either side of the argument. They just show up and think they have no say. This is very evident in your past voting history. This is what Teddy tried to tell you guys for years. The reason that things are in the state they are in is because nobody votes when the time comes. You may have a lot of verbal support out there but that will not count when the votes are tallied. Do not let this happen to you.

You are making a difference as established by the 11th hour FUD being thrown out here. Saying things like if you don not follow the negotiating teams efforts you are all doomed. While it will be an uphill battle, it is far from an impossible situation. Kind of interesting that some folks have suddenly become so interested in these boards that have been around for ten years. I mean, what is the concern? You guys are just a couple of people that are not following the establishment right?

To AztecMystic: I am not under your contract so I may be wrong here so feel free to correct me. You say these people were voted in by the majority. The majority of whom? I do not believe the individual flight attendant votes for any MEC officer or the negotiating team. They do vote for LEC officers as I understand. I guess you could argue that by virtue of them representing you that you voted for them. You bring up a good point though. The flight attendants should be voting for these leaders themselves. Something to maybe try to change.

You are also right that not everyone is going to be happy with anything that were to become a contract. Again, this is the nature of the beast. Nobody will argue that a perfect contract is obtainable. The problems is that there is a large amount of evidence that certain groups are being ignored completely in the process. Because people are asking legitimate questions they are being called liars and propagandists. Nobody thinks you will get everything back you once had, but they sure do not deserve to go three steps backward in the process either. You guys keep saying to support you negotiators. I think they will when you start listening to what the flight attendants are asking. They are not going to blindly follow someone that can only say trust me.

 

[cactusgirl]

Amen, Onestep2flt. Amen.

 

[VAflyGal]

I was thinking the same thing! Kinda clever with the Aztec part to make us think that they are from the West. B)

It is SO obvious who these two are. They are probably the 2 of maybe 3 who believe the garbage that they post. It's just another example of how out of touch they are.

 

[flybynite]

OFFENSIVE POST QUOTATION REMOVED BY MODERATOR

COMMENT REMOVED BY MODERATOR

In the big scheme of things, Flights Attendants are required by law for passenger service. Otherwise, US Airways would be flying boxes.

Why do you ask?

Well, why don't you ask the passengers of Flight 1549? I don't recall any new hires evacuating that flight. In freezing weather and water. With a hole punched in the belly of the plane. Oh!! If it had been a west aircraft....it wouldn't have had passenger life vests either.

I don't think anyone is lining up for my job when they really find out what it entails. That's why it's a revolving door at the commuter airlines. They quit inside of 6 months.

 

[Richard]

Folks,

The post referred to above is totally unacceptable and is a perfect example of how to get suspended from this site. There is no excuse whatsoever for personal insults and attacks and they will NOT be tolerated.

You will also note that I removed the response to the offending post, as it serves no purpose other than to feed the offender ...

PLEASE observe the rules.

The next personal insult or attack gets a minimum of 14 days off.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

They quit inside of 6 months.

And there is someone to replace them within 6 weeks.

Don't kid yourself, even US looks attractive to many.

Have you noticed anybody looking for work these days?

 

[PSA1979]

Well, good or bad, this TA is, I believe the only option avaiilable to us (since striking is not nor has been, since we are not in section 6) is to vote it down, then, send our negotiators back to the table with our (the members) voice to renegotiate the sections we do not like. I believe we should let our JNC do their job, then all of us, as individuals should read everysingle section. We should make our own choices by these factors.

Is my quality of life better with this new TA
Can I live with this contract (not settle for)
And is this contract good for ALL US F/a's

If i can say no to any one of these, then my vote is no, no, no!!! But I do not want the fringe crazies taking away my ability to read the FINISHED TA, and vote it up or down.

And remember this, we can't strike on a Merger Contract, that is only for Section 6, which an arbitrator has already decided the West group cannot go back and negotiate.

 

[Itestwell]

But I do not want the fringe crazies taking away my ability to read the FINISHED TA, and vote it up or down.

And by "fringe crazies", he/ she means "reserves". Obviously, the RSV TA section is not horrible enough for PSA1979 to be upset enough at the unfair/ unbalanced treatment that is coming to the reserves. If there are enough improvements for the top of the seniority list (pay, etc), a yes vote is still a possibility.

It takes a post like this to remind us that RSV is the simple minority.

 

[VAflyGal]

The term(s): With Crew Scheduling Consent, Crew Scheduling May, At the Option of Crew Scheduling, If Crew Scheduling Agrees, As Determined by Crew Scheduling, At Crew Scheduling’s Disression and If Crew Scheduling Elects- appears 18 times in 19 pages of the RSV T/A section.

What else do you need to see?!

 

[john john]

When can section 6 negotiations start with the existing contracts?
If the TA passes when is the contract amendable?

 

[PSA1979]

And by "fringe crazies", he/ she means "reserves". Obviously, the RSV TA section is not horrible enough for PSA1979 to be upset enough at the unfair/ unbalanced treatment that is coming to the reserves. If there are enough improvements for the top of the seniority list (pay, etc), a yes vote is still a possibility.

It takes a post like this to remind us that RSV is the simple minority.

The fringe crazies may be some reserves, but the only ones I have spoken to were block holders. Like I said, my decision to vote yes or no will also include the reserve section. But you chose to leave that part of my quote out. I said it would have to be a good contract for ALL f/a's. Twist everything around, leave stuff out, that is what fringe crazies do, you might just be one and if your're reserve, then that would mean, yes, now I know of one reserve that is.