AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[MustangSally]

Thanks!! Ok this is wonderful.. I prefer more work on reserve days, otherwise I'm just collecting dust around the hotel room at base lol. I don't mind the small negative stuff here, I think all crewmembers complain. Why do we do it? I tried leaving, going back to work in court, and found out I missed flying. So I've been at a few AL's they're all the same with minor differences. Thanks for the well wishes, will let you how it turns out!

Good luck with the contract, and getting what you need! B)

I believe Travelpro meant to say on Reserve off days to pick up extra trips from blockholders.

 

[Travelpro72]

Sorry i was trying to make a little joke. As a reserve Michelle you will sit on call and CANNOT pick up trips from blockholders. You will sit on duty 24 hours a day on your 'on duty' days waiting to see what you'll cover. Granted on bad weather days you'll cover trips due to irregular ops and you'll cover sick calls. Those trips at times can be due to a flight cancelling from a certain city where MANY don't leave a backup to get to work. Just sayin'. Regardless, it's a big change for anyone to become a flight attendant. Just be open to it and if it's right for you you'll stick around with the rest of us. If not you'll run for the hills asking yourself what just happened.

 

[Toothy Grin]

There are things to consider - If you can get into one of the phx based classes you may want to wait for that if you can. Phoenix makes a lower dollar amount, but the health insurance is by far better than the East. Assuming this current contract never gets put into motion, our vacation tops out at 5 weeks...Your first year is 7 days, but you can push that out to about 18 days. We do have fas that commute out of ATL. Also, if you are going to stay in hotels there are pretty cheap crew hotels that offer free breakfast, van pick up and other stuff too. We don't have alot of commuters, but do have alot of sick calls.

Most people in the PHX base live within the PHX city limits. As I recall many newhires think it will be easy to live off of the 16. and change starting pay BUT it is tough without a proper support system. This is probably why so many people in the base live locally or have family in lax, ont, psp, san. We do have a food bank for those who need food and other essentials.

 

[VAflyGal]

Love Toothy's response but the fact that there is a food bank is a perfect example of what's wrong with this whole jacked up jigsaw puzzle.

Off the subject, AFA East is in a tailspin. I am absolutely appalled at what's going on among the ranks and behind closed doors over here right now. Shameful.

Let us know how the interview goes. I hope you are prepared for 20 "Tell me about a time when" questions while they write and write and write. I wonder if they still do the "targeted selection" method of interviewing. I was exhausted after mine.

 

[Al Legheny]

There are things to consider - If you can get into one of the phx based classes you may want to wait for that if you can. Phoenix makes a lower dollar amount, but the health insurance is by far better than the East. Assuming this current contract never gets put into motion, our vacation tops out at 5 weeks...Your first year is 7 days, but you can push that out to about 18 days. We do have fas that commute out of ATL. Also, if you are going to stay in hotels there are pretty cheap crew hotels that offer free breakfast, van pick up and other stuff too. We don't have alot of commuters, but do have alot of sick calls.

Most people in the PHX base live within the PHX city limits. As I recall many newhires think it will be easy to live off of the 16. and change starting pay BUT it is tough without a proper support system. This is probably why so many people in the base live locally or have family in lax, ont, psp, san. We do have a food bank for those who need food and other essentials.

This is what many on the West do not understand about the resistance of East F/A's to the current scheduling proposal. AFA must find a way to address this issue in order to get a contract.

PIT was bigger than all of PHX-LAS combined. Now add in BOS and LGA and you can see that those people are now forced to commute or move. No East F/A who commutes can affford to have a system that will put time in your block that is uncommutable. What kind of bid sheet / trip tracde board will there be? AFA has not answered or even attempted these issues so any possible T/A is in deep trouble.

AFA and the company must address this issue if they are serious about moving forward on a contract. A contract designed for a single base airline will not work in a multibase enviornment where many of the employees are forced to commute due to recent base closings. This proposed T/A does not even consider North East weather. Last year's blizzards showed how weak this management is. Doug and Co. look out of the 9th floor window and see clear skies and wonder "blizzard, what blizzard."

 

[DVolpe]

[/b] PIT was bigger than all of PHX-LAS combined. Now add in BOS and LGA and you can see that those people are now forced to commute or move. No East F/A who commutes can affford to have a system that will put time in your block that is uncommutable. What kind of bid sheet / trip tracde board will there be? AFA has not answered or even attempted these issues so any possible T/A is in deep trouble.

Maybe I can answer a portion of your question.

There will be four (4) processes for trip improvement:

ISAP - This is different than SAP (By Seniority)
AIL (By Seniority)
ETB (On Line Real Time aka First Come First Served)
Unsuccessful Bidders List (By Seniority)

Deborah Volpe

 

[beachboy]

Maybe I can answer a portion of your question.

There will be four (4) processes for trip improvement:

ISAP - This is different than SAP (By Seniority)
AIL (By Seniority)
ETB (On Line Real Time aka First Come First Served)
Unsuccessful Bidders List (By Seniority)

Deborah Volpe

The AIL?! Omg are you insane? What is the cost on that item Deb and what do you know about it!? Catering to the top 10%. In the PBS world- the AIL will only work for the first few people as per Flores. The days of 20+ trips into the "BID SHEET" will be gone. What are they telling you out West? Good Gosh! Whatever the cost value; be it automated or not should be placed toward VAC or lower health care co pays. SCREW the AIL...you out West have no clue on that issue.
ISAP is a staffing based standing bid SAP yes? Well that's makes it clear where we stand . COME ON! :blink:

 

[DVolpe]

The AIL?! Omg are you insane? What is the cost on that item Deb and what do you know about it!? Catering to the top 10%. In the PBS world- the AIL will only work for the first few people as per Flores. The days of 20+ trips into the "BID SHEET" will be gone. What are they telling you out West? Good Gosh! Whatever the cost value; be it automated or not should be placed toward VAC or lower health care co pays. SCREW the AIL...you out West have no clue on that issue.
ISAP is a staffing based standing bid SAP yes? Well that's makes it clear where we stand . COME ON! :blink:

Okay, now this is the reason I don't like to post on these boards. First off, I would suggest you take a breath and think twice before you decide to take that tone with me and bite my head off. Definitely think twice before you decide to call me names. My gosh, we are suppose to be professionals.

What I can tell you is Lisa and I are fighting like hell to get the company to take our cost containments from the West insurance. Our insurance costs are very low.

Vacation, the JNC is solid on this issue. West vacation with improvements in each area.

As far as the scheduling stuff, I'm going to leave that to the road shows when the entire TA can be discussed and debated. I will not get into a debate on a public discussion board. It does no good except to give those in management some entertainment value.

I will ask what I ask our members in the West. Read the TA as a whole. If you don't like it vote no. If it has enough "bells and whistles" along with the a compensation package that addresses your individual needs, then vote yes.

Deborah Volpe

 

[Itestwell]

Okay, now this is the reason I don't like to post on these boards. First off, I would suggest you take a breath and think twice before you decide to take that tone with me and bite my head off. Definitely think twice before you decide to call me names. My gosh, we are suppose to be professionals.

What I can tell you is Lisa and I are fighting like hell to get the company to take our cost containments from the West insurance. Our insurance costs are very low.

Vacation, the JNC is solid on this issue. West vacation with improvements in each area.

As far as the scheduling stuff, I'm going to leave that to the road shows when the entire TA can be discussed and debated. I will not get into a debate on a public discussion board. It does no good except to give those in management some entertainment value.

I will ask what I ask our members in the West. Read the TA as a whole. If you don't like it vote no. If it has enough "bells and whistles" along with the a compensation package that addresses your individual needs, then vote yes.

Deborah Volpe

Where did anyone call you a name? We respect your positions, and do NOT think you have it easy. We do believe, however, that in the desperation to get a "deal done", you are selling us down a river.

Stop embarrassing yourselves, and WALK AWAY FROM THE TABLE. You know full well, that the West, and the East, deserve so much better than what the JNC has brought. Admit it. Take a stand, respect yourself, respect us, and simply walk away. Let's get some East negotiators in there that don't roll over like the current East JNC.

With PBS, there will be no AIL. ISAP will run continuously, but really, we all have lives; we can't sit here and wait until something "pops up" in this fantasy ISAP.

With all due respect, you know the West will ratify with a simple pay raise. But, considering all we've given, don't you think we deserve some improved work rules??

 

[Itestwell]

Vacation, the JNC is solid on this issue. West vacation with improvements in each area.

SOLID ON THIS ISSUE?

Well, you might want to talk to Flores about that, because he showed us the OPENING VACATION PROPOSAL in Charlotte in August, and it was less than the East had in the 2000 agreement. Did you know this out West?? He also said that this was just an "opening proposal"; meaning it could be worse... Have you been informed of this, Deborah? Are you in the "Flores/ Austin" loop?

[quote/]As far as the scheduling stuff, I'm going to leave that to the road shows when the entire TA can be discussed and debated. I will not get into a debate on a public discussion board. It does no good except to give those in management some entertainment value.[/quote]

I am not sure, but I think management is well entertained with the further concessions in reserve, sick, cleaning, and holiday restrictions alone, speaking from the East. As management, that would entertain the he!! outta me!

[quote/]I will ask what I ask our members in the West. Read the TA as a whole. If you don't like it vote no. If it has enough "bells and whistles" along with the a compensation package that addresses your individual needs, then vote yes.

Deborah Volpe
[/quote]
And I hope they see how very many concessions you are bringing to the table. But, I also know they often rely on food banks, which makes me sad, so I suspect compensation will make them cheer for the JNC, and they will, unfortunately, notice the work rule reductions at a later date.

Thank you for contributing, we appreciate that more than you know. Sadly, what you've posted here is more than we've seen in writing from our East MEC/ LEC's in months. Even if we disagree, thank you for having the guts to show your face. It is appreciated.

 

[Zarah]

Vacation, the JNC is solid on this issue. West vacation with improvements in each area.
I will ask what I ask our members in the West. Read the TA as a whole. If you don't like it vote no. If it has enough "bells and whistles" along with the a compensation package that addresses your individual needs, then vote yes.

Deborah Volpe

Union speak for, Hey blockholders look at these bells and whistles they are loud enough to drown out the screams of the reserves that are being run over by the Swoosh Bus.

It is appreciated that you do not hide behind some faceless board name and talk to us =) Now if we could only get you to realize the contract has taken a nasty concessionary turn and walk away from the table.

 

[Al Legheny]

Where did anyone call you a name? We respect your positions, and do NOT think you have it easy. We do believe, however, that in the desperation to get a "deal done", you are selling us down a river.

Stop embarrassing yourselves, and WALK AWAY FROM THE TABLE. You know full well, that the West, and the East, deserve so much better than what the JNC has brought. Admit it. Take a stand, respect yourself, respect us, and simply walk away. Let's get some East negotiators in there that don't roll over like the current East JNC.

With PBS, there will be no AIL. ISAP will run continuously, but really, we all have lives; we can't sit here and wait until something "pops up" in this fantasy ISAP.

With all due respect, you know the West will ratify with a simple pay raise. But, considering all we've given, don't you think we deserve some improved work rules??

ISAP is effectively a "Jungle Rules" operation. It is an attempt to make flight crews, pilots and F/A's, feel that the time is very limited and if you don't sit right at your computer and pick up everything you can then you will lose out and not get your time in for the month. East flight crews will not stand for that system. It must be seniority based and it would actually be a simple method to have this close on a daily basis for a week or so to clear out most of the open time. That way everyone would have multiple chances to pick up and discard trips.

East Crews want a seniority based open time bid system. With technology the way it is this should be a simple thing to allow people to have multiple opportunities to adjust their schedules. It needs to be seniority based and have multiple runs to allow people to adjust tiime.

The current West system is simply unacceptable. The East system has evolved since 1962 when AFA was first recognized and since 1950 when ALPA was on the property. The East contracts for both groups are very mature documents and represent over a half century of work. Asking employees to throw that away for a system that is a joke to any major airline is simply asking too much. Yes I said joke. The current AWA crew scheduling system is closer to MESA Airlines than it is to any other major airline.

Who every wants to sell this piece of garbage has a lot of work to do. There is not enough lipstick to fix this pig.

 

[My2cents]

Come on everyone! Do you really think the JNC wants there to be a ratified contract?
Please!
Mike, Carol, Lisa & Deb all have a little cushy job collecting 108 international pay & making over
100k plus. Carol in fact is making 160k a year (108 international / CSD pay + PBGC & SS) .
Times that by 5 years, that's a pretty nice gig to have don't you think?
Its much better then flying the Line.
Every now and then they toss out a few little carrots to make everyone feel hopeful
and that they are working HARD for YOU. NOT!
To be honest there isn't really a push for them to have a New contract.

Just saying.

 

[DVolpe]

Come on everyone! Do you really think the JNC wants there to be a ratified contract?
Please!
Mike, Carol, Lisa & Deb all have a little cushy job collecting 108 international pay & making over
100k plus. Carol in fact is making 160k a year (108 international / CSD pay + PBGC & SS) .
Times that by 5 years, that's a pretty nice gig to have don't you think?
Its much better then flying the Line.
Every now and then they toss out a few little carrots to make everyone feel hopeful
and that they are working HARD for YOU. NOT!
To be honest there isn't really a push for them to have a New contract.

Just saying.

Oh seriously, (and I won't engage further on this subject)! For the record, prior to being elected, I flew between 105 and 110 hours per month. I knew when taking this position, it would be a pay cut for me as there is no per diem and my pay is a flat 105 including my "A" pay (I've been bidding and holding "A" for the past 15 yrs). I do not take International pay or International lead pay merely due to the fact I don't bid (HNL or SJO) and don't have a history of working those trips.

Lisa is paid 105 without "A" pay since she does not have a history of bidding only the "A" position.

So before you go slinging inaccurate information, it might be a good idea to contact us at the MEC Office in PHX if you want to know how we (at Council 66) are paid.

And for the record......anyone that wants to drag out the negotiations process should have a mental health check. There's nothing, I mean nothing enjoyable about this process. Flying the line at 110 hours a month as a commuter, is a cake walk compared to negotiations.

Again, this will be the last I post for awhile as not to get dragged into a cyber battle on a public discussion board.

Respectfully,

Deborah Volpe

 

[My2cents]

Thats all good to know Deb. Then Dig in Deep and get a contract that we all can LIVE with! Its been 5+ years and its been WAY too LONG!
Your getting Paid to do a job. Now DO IT.
Enough is Enough! Why do you think the east is trying to recall Carol and Mike.