AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[lgwcalling]

Question..What Exactly do you want? Just curious..You do know that we will NOT get Exactally what we want right? We will NEVER get back All that we gave up...You do know that right?

Just a thought.....I could never imagine someone like PITbull negotiating from the weak position you suggest. Also, we're a profitable airline now with a bankruptcy-forced F/A contract.

And why shouldn't we get back for Reserves what we gave up? This is the only airline in the country that consistently has 20+ year F/As sitting reserve duty. I'm sorry, but if that's the norm and your entire career could be spent on reserve then our Reserve Section should make your professional life bearable!

This TA regarding the Reserve Section is a concessionary agreement:

(1) OPR duty - they can now extend your duty time - CONSESSION.
(2) Ability to pick trips that suit you - now you're probably going to always have to pick a 4-day if you're available for 4 day - CONSESSION.
(3) RAPs - no language that guarantees that you will not be reassigned your awarded RAP when the company feels the need - CONSESSION.

What I read was a reworking and rewording of what reserves already had. I hardly consider a sometimes-seniority-based reserve order and 30 minutes added to your call out time an improved Reserve Section.

IMHO

 

[Toothy Grin]

WHAT THE HEC HAPPENED TO ROTATING RESERVE?????

What was the point of posting notices that said talks are getting serious and the co and the jnc are really hunkering down to get things done. This is it? I expected something a document that showed there was really some effort.

I'm not making much now, but if they keep this up I'm gonna tell em what they can do with that carrot they are dangling in front of me.

I can see why there is an effort to recall Mike and Carol.

 

[FlyGuyBWI]

Without even commenting on the terms of the reserve section of the T/A that was published by AFA East (it SUCKS) ... Ooops, I couldn't help myself ... the language itself is very loose. I really hope that this is not indicative of what we will see in the rest of the T/A. Too much wiggle room for company "interpretation". I'll vote NO on poor form alone.

 

[galley princess]

I read the TA reserve section quickly, but I agree with what most have said, there is WAYYYYYYYYYYYY too much wiggle room for the company.

They need to firm up this section. It is completely unacceptable the way it is, and frankly what the hell? How many ways does AFA have to see US violate our current abysmal agreement to know that they will promptly start doing so before the ink is dry on a new one? I had heard that they were spending a lot of time clearing up language and making the contract more black and white precisely to avoid any wiggle room. Now I too am afraid to see the rest of the agreement.

Reserve sits at or around twenty years at US. When is AFA going to realize that this has to be addressed?

Finally, did I read it right that it does resemble the old style in that if as a reserve you want to time out, you can use your seniority to fly as much as possible, including your days off to do so? If so, that is the one positive in the mess. In the old system, senior reserves slammed through the first fifteen--umm, now it will be eighteen days of the month and went home. I realize that not everyone wants to do this, but for a commuting airline, the ability to do so is important.

 

[VAflyGal]

I used to be one of those reserves who did that and I was on the 105 option. Now with this "aggressive" nonsense we can't use that time to time out, and why would anyone want to give up days off for pay with credit when you can ETB on days off above guarantee?

The OPR section is hideous. If you are most senior and are good for 4 days but the other OPRs are junior to you but good only for two and don't want to give up days off, you, the SR f/a is gonna take that 4 day. How is that giving back seniority to us? It's not. Everything is up to scheduling's discretion. Please. My whole life has been up to scheduling and the company's discretion - most recently I got jerked out of my base thanks to displacement. Now with the VF's coming back, I might get bumped again. We have to live with what's coming.
NO THANKS to what we see.

Next.

 

[I Was... Now US]

What everyone (blockholders and reserves) needs to realize is this reserve TA is garbage and a lot of reserves are ready to jump ship if Delta picks them up. With that said... all of you blockholders that enjoy a line right now with 20+ years seniority will be back on RSV before you know it. It is reality and everyone needs to realize this. IMO I would rather have had rotating RSV or an A days system and then for those that may end up back on RSV would only have to do it every other month or on an A days system, sit for 3 days a month. Not too bad considering you may be on RSV for the rest of your career. Wake up people and stop being so close minded. Its your future. Okay... I'm done. Thanks for listening.

 

[really?noreally]

I read the TA reserve section quickly, but I agree with what most have said, there is WAYYYYYYYYYYYY too much wiggle room for the company.

They need to firm up this section. It is completely unacceptable the way it is, and frankly what the hell? How many ways does AFA have to see US violate our current abysmal agreement to know that they will promptly start doing so before the ink is dry on a new one? I had heard that they were spending a lot of time clearing up language and making the contract more black and white precisely to avoid any wiggle room. Now I too am afraid to see the rest of the agreement.

Reserve sits at or around twenty years at US. When is AFA going to realize that this has to be addressed?

Finally, did I read it right that it does resemble the old style in that if as a reserve you want to time out, you can use your seniority to fly as much as possible, including your days off to do so? If so, that is the one positive in the mess. In the old system, senior reserves slammed through the first fifteen--umm, now it will be eighteen days of the month and went home. I realize that not everyone wants to do this, but for a commuting airline, the ability to do so is important.

Reserve language - it reads you cannot call out of time when you make yourself an 'aggressive reserve' ( flying on one's off days) as that time flown does not count towards your ability to call out of time... -

I especially loved the part about getting paid one minute of pay for every minute you sit on an airplane past your opr when you have boarded a flight waiting for the crew....it will be so 'nice' just watching your commuter flight back out of the gate..wow, I got paid 9 minutes but now have to get a hotel room for $50.00 +

The new word of the day for the jnc is 'grouping'..instead of 'bucket' - what a joke. The east jnc must be in a hurry to get this done now that they are hearing that the recall police may be knocking at their door. Guess they figure if they publish something, it looks like they are 'getting' it done, getting us an 'industry leading contract'. This reserve language is loaded with company /scheduling control and ambiguity just the way they like it- no. no. no. :angry:

 

[ExPit]

What everyone (blockholders and reserves) needs to realize is this reserve TA is garbage and a lot of reserves are ready to jump ship if Delta picks them up. With that said... all of you blockholders that enjoy a line right now with 20+ years seniority will be back on RSV before you know it. It is reality and everyone needs to realize this. IMO I would rather have had rotating RSV or an A days system and then for those that may end up back on RSV would only have to do it every other month or on an A days system, sit for 3 days a month. Not too bad considering you may be on RSV for the rest of your career. Wake up people and stop being so close minded. Its your future. Okay... I'm done. Thanks for listening.

There are a lot of us with 20+ years that get it. Many of us were on reserve in Pittsburgh from 2003 until the base closed. I know that isn't a long time, but it was long enough to understand the system and hate it. Believe me, none of us wants to go back on reserve and the new proposal is insane. It is obvious that our negotiators are not listening to what the membership wants.

There's so many other things that are wrong about the new proposal and they haven't even gotten to compensation, vacation, or sick time. So, even if a senior person doesn't care too much about the reserve system, they will probably vote no for other reasons.

 

[VAflyGal]

There are a lot of us with 20+ years that get it. Many of us were on reserve in Pittsburgh from 2003 until the base closed. I know that isn't a long time, but it was long enough to understand the system and hate it. Believe me, none of us wants to go back on reserve and the new proposal is insane. It is obvious that our negotiators are not listening to what the membership wants.

There's so many other things that are wrong about the new proposal and they haven't even gotten to compensation, vacation, or sick time. So, even if a senior person doesn't care too much about the reserve system, they will probably vote no for other reasons.

THANK YOU. This brings a tear to my eye. Seriously.
Enough is Enough!!!!!!!

 

[OP Taylor]

Reserve language - it reads you cannot call out of time when you make yourself an 'aggressive reserve' ( flying on one's off days) as that time flown does not count towards your ability to call out of time... -

I especially loved the part about getting paid one minute of pay for every minute you sit on an airplane past your opr when you have boarded a flight waiting for the crew....it will be so 'nice' just watching your commuter flight back out of the gate..wow, I got paid 9 minutes but now have to get a hotel room for $50.00 +

The new word of the day for the jnc is 'grouping'..instead of 'bucket' - what a joke. The east jnc must be in a hurry to get this done now that they are hearing that the recall police may be knocking at their door. Guess they figure if they publish something, it looks like they are 'getting' it done, getting us an 'industry leading contract'. This reserve language is loaded with company /scheduling control and ambiguity just the way they like it- no. no. no. :angry:

Have to agree with Really/Noreally!!! If we are capable of reading between the lines you will see the more and more control going to the company. The pendulum is swinging toward scheduling now more than ever. My friends who attended the meeting in CLT said Flores stated " we worked hard and long to get rid of the LTO and we now have "SYSTEM SENIORITY" back. He also went on to say that the reserves would be able to "PASS" ( ROC in todays lingo) and now REALLY/NO REALLY is pointing out where GROUPINGS instead of buckets. Are you getting the picture here? The JNC is now trying to sell this piece of garbage by using the BUZZ words that we were all very fond of. SYSTEM SENIORITY BASED RESERVE.......PASS.........GROUPINGS!!!!!! They have cleverly brought these terms back to convince the reserves that they are bringing back the OLD SYSTEM SENIORITY but we reserves are not buying the spin. Good try but we gave at the office and we are more intelligent than you give us credit for. This package is shameful. Let Flores and Austin come and walk in our shoes for 6 months under this POS system.


I agree with other posts the time is NOW! Get rid of them and then continue with the other dinosaurs who seem to think that UNION positions are "TRANSITIONAL POSITIONS TO RETIREMENT". I am not opposed to those who perform but am opposed to those who are using these positions to coast into retirement. I am sure they all know who they are as do we. Vote them out and see your seniority move up. You don't actually think they would stoop down to be a flight attendant again do you? No they think they are better than us.

I am sure Flores and Austin are hoping this POS doesn't somehow pass then they can milk these negotiations another 5 years on the backs of the flight attendants.

Get out the brooms............ Totally disgusted!!!!!

 

[MAAMARCH04]

So, even if a senior person doesn't care too much about the reserve system, they will probably vote no for other reasons.

Nice to know and I know that you didn't mean it the wrong way, but A SENIOR PERSON SHOULD CARE ABOUT THE RESERVE SYSTEM...WE ARE THEIR FELLOW UNION BROTHERS AND SISTERS....WE ARE A PART OF THE F/A UNION....WE PAY OUR DUES AND WE NEED THEIR SUPPORT!

 

[Onestep2flt]

I am sure Flores and Austin are hoping this POS doesn't somehow pass then they can milk these negotiations another 5 years on the backs of the flight attendants.

Get out the brooms............ Totally disgusted!!!!!

I wonder if it is already too late. The reserve section is T/A'd. Even if you guys get rid of these leeches, I don't think the company will be willing to open up this section again. That is unless you actually vote down the whole agreement whenever it may come to fruition.

The bigger question is: How likely is a tentative agreement to actually fail? My friends tell me you guys are lucky to get anyone actually interested in voting and those that do seem to vote yes to the first thing that comes along. I hope you guys can straighten this situation before any complete tentative agreement comes your way.

Hope you get enough people to start sweeping!

 

[VAflyGal]

Most of us are beyond disgruntled at this point and we have quite a few sigs on the recall petitions. All we need is 51%. I'm confident we will vote NO on this one.

 

[ExPit]

Nice to know and I know that you didn't mean it the wrong way, but A SENIOR PERSON SHOULD CARE ABOUT THE RESERVE SYSTEM...WE ARE THEIR FELLOW UNION BROTHERS AND SISTERS....WE ARE A PART OF THE F/A UNION....WE PAY OUR DUES AND WE NEED THEIR SUPPORT!

I guess that you are drawing the line at 20 years. Below that is junior and above that is senior. Okay, but you confusing us with the 35 year + people. What I am trying to say is that there are many of us above 20 years that care deeply about the reserve system. If you all jump ship to Delta ( or Southwest or ...) we will be the ones on reserve. I was on reserve and DID NOT like it, nor do I like the new proposal. I will vote no. I will also take a picture of my vote, print it out and show it to anyone and everyone.

However, keep in mind that those senior people are your FELLOW UNION BROTHERS AND SISTERS so don't be so quick to sell them down the river for a rumored $10 dollar/hour raise for an 80 hour flight attendant. There are many, many parts of the contract that stink, and everyone gets to vote on what affects them personally. But, I do think every union member should look forward and vote for the good of everyone.

Our compensation section has not been addressed yet, but rumors are rampant that we are getting a $10/hour raise. Even if we get the $10, we will certainly lose most of it in somehow through vacation, sick times, benefits or duty rigs. By the way, I think we deserve at least $15/hour which would bring us closer to Southwest's pay scale.

Vote No!

 

[Toothy Grin]

Most of us are beyond disgruntled at this point and we have quite a few sigs on the recall petitions. All we need is 51%. I'm confident we will vote NO on this one.

Let the reserve section be ta'd. I am voting no as are many others on the west. I've waited this long, so what...I'll just lay back and have someone feed me grapes.

BTW, how is this recall going? I thought it was one recall, but now I understand that it is two. One for Mike and one for Carol.