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AFA labor discussion (Work related)

What is disturbing to me is that it is more important for some to engage in the "she said" nonsense than concentrating on a plan or response to the utter insulting display of disrespect the company showed the FA group with their JNC proposal last week.

Let's all sit around on a web board and play sophomoric high school games of "she did and she said" all the while the company laughs (hysterically) at this group. And more to the point, providing them the reasons of WHY not to take the FA group serious.

Try concentrating on the REAL problem at hand. Getting a realistic contract that everyone can live under.

Don't hate the players... Hate the game. No one that was ever elected, or that is currently working in the union is free of faults or enemies. Concentrate on the the objective at hand. And for god's sake quit making it so easy for the company.

The pilot's have already chosen that route - and we all know how that strategy is working.
 
Glucose,

Your post should wake some people up. While some are busy focused on playground antics the company just put one across the bow with a very poor opening offer on compensation. I think one thing that should be of grave concern at US is the insurance.

Seems they wish to completely eliminate the 100% and 90% option. This might be fine for a single, young healthy person that has never been to the hospital. However, what is the youngest flight attendant you have? How many are single having never been married or least have children? I am aware that there are a few thirty somethings out there, but think it is safe to assume a majority are forty and up. At that age is when you have to get pokes and prods you did not have to get before. You may just have those accident prone teen children that break something every year. I think taking away the 100% and 90% options is not an option for a lot of people. I think the extra premium you pay for having the higher option more than covers itself in a year. So they want to now take that away and increase deductions and copay for you. Wait, there is more, don't forget you are making the same as you have been for the last decade. Seems even with that magical ten dollars that everyone was talking about won't even make up for the increase in insurance with a decrease in benefits. Now that is not even on the horizon. You now also have to pay 20% of that major unexpected surgery. Don't worry though when you recover you can pick up those extra trips on your day off.

This is where Travelpro does make a point. There are people in Charlotte that do care about the local election. The person that is going to be in that office elects and supports the Negotiators that you have that closed some sections on your contract without listening to the people they supposedly represent. Debating about the people that are on the ballot is healthy to a point. Don't fixate on it though or a tactical nuke strike might be next from the company. I still think you need to know something about everyone on the ballot, but nobody seems to know that either. I think there is justification to ask questions about what a person that is presently there has done. The answers may be subjective but it will come down to who best represents you individually. Don't make it about the least of the two evils. Ask question to all candidates on the ballot. There may or may not be a better answer.

My parting thought is this. Do you think Mr. Flores closed out the reserve section with little debate hoping the company would budge a little on compensation? It seems pretty fair to say he was not listening then, will he start listening now?
 
We can debate here until the end of time but until we CHANGE the leaders (if you want to call them that) currently elected here nothing will get done. Mike and Carol are kept at the table by Ann and John. Alin in DC not to be rude but matters to a lesser degree. Ann needs to go along with John as THEY vote to keep Mike where he is. Look, regardless of whether anyone agrees with changing JNC's now doesn't matter. We have a team negotiating FOR US that are out of their league. They don't know what to do now. So now what? Sit and wait to vote? I don't think so. 🙄
 
Glucose,

Your post should wake some people up. While some are busy focused on playground antics the company just put one across the bow with a very poor opening offer on compensation. I think one thing that should be of grave concern at US is the insurance.

Seems they wish to completely eliminate the 100% and 90% option. This might be fine for a single, young healthy person that has never been to the hospital. However, what is the youngest flight attendant you have? How many are single having never been married or least have children? I am aware that there are a few thirty somethings out there, but think it is safe to assume a majority are forty and up. At that age is when you have to get pokes and prods you did not have to get before. You may just have those accident prone teen children that break something every year. I think taking away the 100% and 90% options is not an option for a lot of people. I think the extra premium you pay for having the higher option more than covers itself in a year. So they want to now take that away and increase deductions and copay for you. Wait, there is more, don't forget you are making the same as you have been for the last decade. Seems even with that magical ten dollars that everyone was talking about won't even make up for the increase in insurance with a decrease in benefits. Now that is not even on the horizon. You now also have to pay 20% of that major unexpected surgery. Don't worry though when you recover you can pick up those extra trips on your day off.

This is where Travelpro does make a point. There are people in Charlotte that do care about the local election. The person that is going to be in that office elects and supports the Negotiators that you have that closed some sections on your contract without listening to the people they supposedly represent. Debating about the people that are on the ballot is healthy to a point. Don't fixate on it though or a tactical nuke strike might be next from the company. I still think you need to know something about everyone on the ballot, but nobody seems to know that either. I think there is justification to ask questions about what a person that is presently there has done. The answers may be subjective but it will come down to who best represents you individually. Don't make it about the least of the two evils. Ask question to all candidates on the ballot. There may or may not be a better answer.

My parting thought is this. Do you think Mr. Flores closed out the reserve section with little debate hoping the company would budge a little on compensation? It seems pretty fair to say he was not listening then, will he start listening now?

Spot On.
If I might add this to the discussion: Insurance is always going to be an issue going forward. All one has to do look back at what has transpired in this country the last year. What is scary: SCOPE and the erosion of ALL protections and work rules. Management wants to treat these contract as if they were pertaining to office or factory workers. Glamor has long left the equation for this work group but a Flight crew's work environment is unique. It needs to handled and negotiated as such. The shear fact there is need to have food banks for pilots and flight attendants is unconscionable. Or perhaps a feather in the cap of management.

The company (i.e. the management team) is only looking for ways to effectively implement items that make us attractive to a merger partner. Nothing wrong there except this: All of the concessions have been on the back of the employees and all of the economic gain has only gone to those at the top.

Do you think Kelleher and Kelly at SWA make decisions at their company that makes them look better as a merger partner? At the detriment of their employees? Or does he put his BIG BOY pants on and does what is in the best interest of SWA and manages THEIR airline? Really think about that.

This merger US/HP ONLY took place because the prior management had to get the East labor costs down to the level of that of our West counterparts or there would not have been a merger. Period.
AWA labor costs, whether your in denial or not, were and still are THE LOWEST IN THE INDUSTRY.

So now Parker says he needs us to keep labor costs low to stay competitive. So we are attractive to merger partners. What was his compensation package again? Lowest in the industry? Lead by Example? Anything about protracted labor disputes going on five years?

Yet, after experiencing the benefit and economic advantage of having the lowest labor cost of any airline, they can only show a profit thats proportional to our ancillary fees (which are the highest in the industry and passengers despise).

The company problem isn't a LABOR COST ISSUE - It's a MANAGEMENT ISSUE.

Getting the employees to make concessions only makes it easier for them NOT to do effectively what they are being (highly) compensated to do - run an airline. I don't want to hear how we are number one on on time when we pad the hell out of our flight times. The public isn't fooled by it either.
We have some major issues going forward - namely our management team. And CHAOS isn't going to fix that. This management has total disdain for it's employees unless they are drinking the Kool-Aid. I have said it before and Ill say it again: Parker is just another Frank Lorenzo with a slightly different rap.

Also consider this regarding Chaos: When F/As in CLT realize that if their flight is called to be a CHAOS flight - they are unemployed.

I dare say you will see a wave of green shirts rolling over faster than Obama on tax cuts for the wealthy. Think I am wrong? I hope I am....but I doubt it.

It time to embrace solidarity East and West. Section 6 was a good move and perhaps kick in a "VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE" for our management then let the games begin. Let's get through the election in CLT and support and hold accountable the elected leader. Good Luck to us all....we are going to need it.
 
We can debate here until the end of time but until we CHANGE the leaders (if you want to call them that) currently elected here nothing will get done. Mike and Carol are kept at the table by Ann and John. Alin in DC not to be rude but matters to a lesser degree. Ann needs to go along with John as THEY vote to keep Mike where he is. Look, regardless of whether anyone agrees with changing JNC's now doesn't matter. We have a team negotiating FOR US that are out of their league. They don't know what to do now. So now what? Sit and wait to vote? I don't think so. 🙄


Agreed - the election process starts soon in PHL. Call JM everyday and make sure that he know your displeasure and what you expect him to do and vote on your behalf. I have and still do in CLT...not that it has done much good. New election and new player possible so I am optimistic change is near. The one thing that has not changed is Tempe. If you want a new JNC then organize a successful recall and get 'r done (I have been in CLT too long). PM if you need some support in CLT.
Teddy where are you? I would love to hear her take on all of this.
 
Just to clarify: CHAOS uses volunteers primarily. With the FAA minimums being used on US a/c, generally all you're going to need is one CHAOS person. CHAOS also has a training program. The people who choose to put their jobs on the line get training to stand up to intimidation and they are supposed to get resources as well.

We will see how CWA supports any labor action, but to my understanding, it involves basically the acronym; i.e. Causing Havoc Around Our System.

For example: You'll have three CHAOS people on Tel Aviv, they'll be met with tickets to go home and voila; a cancelled flight back. I don't know all the particulars, but it is important that US f/as realize that as far as striking and labor actions go, there has been no good answer to CHAOS, and you won't have mass firings. Wolfe and Gangwal played chicken with the union and threatened to shut the airline down rather than face chaos, but you'll notice that they didn't.

BTW, there is a lot of room for causing pain and havoc that doesn't endanger anyone's job, and they will be used first.

This is a bad economy, we all know it, but the company is making money and they are also trying to use the general uncertainty of the country to influence US f/a actions. Standing up for ourselves and not budging on getting the contract we deserve should not make anyone feel uncertain, like I said, we can inflict a lot of pain on AWA management and not even use a sick call, so maybe CLT won't step up to the plate, but that's okay, there are enough of us to do it for them. And anyway, CLT is no longer just CLT, it's PIT and BOS as well.
 
REALLY? Bah Bah!!
I'd say more than minimum wage which is what we basically make if you calculate total number of hours on duty by our actual pay with a factor of total number of days away. It takes more days to get in the same 80 hours it used to even two years ago since the company learned to build more trips with multiple deadheads. So we now see four days worth 13 and 14 hours.
A man is only worth what he himself feels deserving
 
DOL investigation?
Really??? People, please tell me you read the Int'l office email. Yes, there was a challenge to council 89 LEC election, it went through the internal hoops and then to the DOL. The DOL (U.S. Dept. of Labor) investigated and we in CLT are getting a new election for LEC President. And to all of the great naysayers, all of the "let's resort to trashing because we REALLY have nothing else factual" to sayers - please let me remind you that in the last 18 years or so of service from the current leadership I can count a zero balance in the "What I have accomplished" column. As for Cathy, I see at least two items, the 24/7 and the challenge (yes that counts because it potentially rids us of an unnecessary evil).
 
Spot On.


This merger US/HP ONLY took place because the prior management had to get the East labor costs down to the level of that of our West counterparts or there would not have been a merger. Period.
AWA labor costs, whether your in denial or not, were and still are THE LOWEST IN THE INDUSTRY.
Agree 110%
 
If you take our hourly rate and divide it in half, that will give you what someone working 40 hours a week would make. So the $41 an hour would equal $20.50 for someone working in the "real world". We both would make the same over the course of a year, all other things being equal. (no overtime, no time and a half, etc.)

That is only for flight time. It doesn't consider ten to fourteen hour duty days-nine fifteen minimum overnights. Divide that $41 for time on duty and see what you get per hour.
Five years and no information on the contract, then two weeiks before Christmas and we get this proposal-after they were short during Thanksgiving. Management continues to show their stupidity. They think f/a are going to leave children and ailing parents who may not be here next year for next to nothing while management sips eggnog (?) next to the fire (maybe not in Phoenix) collecting millionsl I THINK NOT! I will certainly support West as we work together for not only a livable wage but also a better life.
 
Agree 110%
The company problem isn't a LABOR COST ISSUE - It's a MANAGEMENT ISSUE.

I Agree Glucose. The company a has dragged this on for 4 years because we are at wages of 15 years ago. Tempe cannot figure out how to run a profitable airline without charging fees, and surcharges and making money off paying employees 1990's wages. We have technology now. Where are the photo's of the TOP CEO's driving their BMWs, Lexus' and Mercedes'? And their wives' car's? And the colleges of their children? Take some photo's at how we live. Then, we call in Keith Oberman or Rachael Maddow. And then let the public, the American People, see how greedy this airline Management is. Put it in the USA TODAY and on the news.
 
If that is what it takes. I am so sick and tired, fed up and over this management team and their obvious feelings toward it's employees. I understand what negotiating is but NOW? I want every G'damn thing we gave up. I don't give a fat rats ass what that means in terms of being realistic. Honestly, at this point I don't care. I want what we gave and not a damn thing more. I want the reserve system we had and not a damn thing less. OVER IT and DON'T want to hear anything less.
 
Where are the photo's of the TOP CEO's driving their BMWs, Lexus' and Mercedes'? And their wives' car's? And the colleges of their children? Take some photo's at how we live. Then, we call in Keith Oberman or Rachael Maddow

Good Lord you people are dangeriously stupid!
 
If that is what it takes. I am so sick and tired, fed up and over this management team and their obvious feelings toward it's employees. I understand what negotiating is but NOW? I want every G'damn thing we gave up. I don't give a fat rats ass what that means in terms of being realistic. Honestly, at this point I don't care. I want what we gave and not a damn thing more. I want the reserve system we had and not a damn thing less. OVER IT and DON'T want to hear anything less.


A decided change in tone.

Someone forwarded me the most recent E-line from Mike Flores regarding the company’s recent pay offer. After reading this letter I can only come to the conclusion that “Mike has woken up and is smelling the coffee.” He doubted the resolve of this group regarding scheduling but the pay offer is so over the top that even he can’t ignore the membership. Nonetheless it is amazing to me that it had to go this far for AFA leadership to realize that the rank and file have a problem with negotiations and the direction the union was taking.

One dodged recall, with another one brewing, a DOL sponsored election on the property; “No” tags by the score. Hello…. McFly!?!

Welcome to your union Mike, better late than never I suppose.
 

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