AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[UPNAWAY]

You all do realize that you are not underpaid and you deserve nothing more then the market will tolerate. There are tons more people that want to be flight attendants or used to be and they could replace everyone fairly easily. Not a good barging position to be in. Your concerns and gripes no matter how valid mean nothing because you have no leverage. And much as your rhetoric about class warfare fires up the base it is ridicules from a barging standpoint and would actually turn the public against you if you go public with your gripes and envy. If unions want to be successful they need to learn about economics and the real world and tone down the rhetoric and try and be a business partner not a bunch of complainers.

 

[ExPit]

You all do realize that you are not underpaid and you deserve nothing more then the market will tolerate. There are tons more people that want to be flight attendants or used to be and they could replace everyone fairly easily. Not a good barging position to be in. Your concerns and gripes no matter how valid mean nothing because you have no leverage. And much as your rhetoric about class warfare fires up the base it is ridicules from a barging standpoint and would actually turn the public against you if you go public with your gripes and envy. If unions want to be successful they need to learn about economics and the real world and tone down the rhetoric and try and be a business partner not a bunch of complainers.

Apparently the market does tolerate wages above the $40 mark and we are underpaid in comparison to the other carriers. Are you paying attention to the tentative contract that Continental flight attendants voted down? They were offered wages above $55. Check it out. Then, when I'm pulling your sorry self out of the Hudson River or a flaming airplane, let me know if I'm worth every penny I make and deserve much, much more.

 

[crazylikefox]

You all do realize that you are not underpaid and you deserve nothing more then the market will tolerate. There are tons more people that want to be flight attendants or used to be and they could replace everyone fairly easily. Not a good barging position to be in. Your concerns and gripes no matter how valid mean nothing because you have no leverage. And much as your rhetoric about class warfare fires up the base it is ridicules from a barging standpoint and would actually turn the public against you if you go public with your gripes and envy. If unions want to be successful they need to learn about economics and the real world and tone down the rhetoric and try and be a business partner not a bunch of complainers.

UPNAWAY, it all depends on what you mean by being in a good "barging position"... I do not intend on ramming through any doors. I do, however, intend on demanding better pay for all we do. I agree with ExPit, the market will bear a long overdue increase in our wages. What is "ridicules" is that management can't seem to understand that we are their best partners. We have stepped up to the plate every single time management has destroyed our economic base...anyone remember dismantling the Fla. shuttle, the PSA routes? These were profitable aspects of our company.
We took on cleaning duties to save them money; we took pay cuts; we've done everything including giving them excellent PR because we are so highly trained and we ARE professional safety personnel.
Unless you're on a steady diet of Corporate Kool-aid, you should understand the economic value of that.

 

[Travelpro72]

UPNAWAY you are entitled to your opinion as it is just that, an opinion. The membership here will FIGHT and they will GET everthing they want. Period. People are pissed off, tired of the BS and over the management team that makes MORE than their big competitors while WE make less. Not happening anymore. Yep, it's THAT simple. They can threaten to shut the G'damn airline down again and turn the lights off. This management team has drawn the FINAL LINE in the sand. Pound salt and be afraid because you got a lot of pissed off employees on your hands. Happy company and happy customers come from happy employees. You don't want that? Fine by me......game set match.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

You all do realize that you are not underpaid and you deserve nothing more then the market will tolerate. There are tons more people that want to be flight attendants or used to be and they could replace everyone fairly easily. Not a good barging position to be in. Your concerns and gripes no matter how valid mean nothing because you have no leverage. And much as your rhetoric about class warfare fires up the base it is ridicules from a barging standpoint and would actually turn the public against you if you go public with your gripes and envy. If unions want to be successful they need to learn about economics and the real world and tone down the rhetoric and try and be a business partner not a bunch of complainers.

Everyone of us is replaceable. No one here isn't aware of that fact. And your right, there a great deal of people out of work in this country. Why is that again? Left wing conspiracy? Or outsourcing, ignorance, and plain old greed?
I dare say many of those unemployed are far more qualified than those currently working here. Actually that's pretty evident every day.

Think about if someone like Alan Mulally (from Ford) were at the helm instead our current management team? Or other executives that are currently unemployed that have more experience and more talent in getting a company to work together than those currently in Tempe? Think they would take on the same job for less than we are paying Parker and Co.? Think we could have a "job fair" to find out? Are they unemployed CEO's that will take on the job for 1992 wages? Maybe in a bad economy. Everyone lowers there expectations if they are unemployed, but it still doesn't matter what you pay your employees if can't get them to all pull in the same direction especially if they all think their CEO is a weasel and is fundamentally incapable of keeping the front line employees content - the same ones that picked up the tab for the merger that he is now presiding over.

So your happy being compensated at the lower end of the scale of your peers - we get it. Just don't expect everyone else to feel the same way, especially from the ones that sacrificed the most to make this merger possible. Yeah I know the common response - " if you don't like it you can always quit" and that's true. But it is also true that the West side is operating 25% + of our previous East route structure because LAS couldn't make money even at AWA pay rates. Free market: blah blah blah - It didn't stop SWA or Allegiant? Did it?

So now the Great Gazoo and Co. brings record load factors exacting the lowest yields back to the East in same the fashion AWA has always operated. And low and behold now we can only be profitable by charging fees and dumping the LAS operation. That's what we are supposed to believe? That's the East's fault? We are all over compensated even at the bottom of the scale of our peers. Please.

I am happy for you that your so content, and you feel that you are being fairly compensated (directly proportional to what the market will bear). And YOU are probably right, YOU are being compensated for what you think you are worth.

There are just many us that feel that do not share your same devalued opinion of our own self worth and what we do. No employee here is asking for more than a living wage with some acknowledgment (in the form of $$) of our own sacrifice that brought us to this place in time. The sacrifice that enabled both companies to survive. Tempe has had no problem rewarding themselves for that accomplishment.
Time to share a little with the little people....you know the employees.

No one care what the Baker makes as long as the Bread is good - that seems to have been apropos at the top. Right? Now it's time to pay the band, and dance with the one that brought you to the prom.

We now return you to the Rush Limbaugh show already in progress.

 

[flygirl74]

You all do realize that you are not underpaid and you deserve nothing more then the market will tolerate. There are tons more people that want to be flight attendants or used to be and they could replace everyone fairly easily. Not a good barging position to be in. Your concerns and gripes no matter how valid mean nothing because you have no leverage. And much as your rhetoric about class warfare fires up the base it is ridicules from a barging standpoint....

Not quite sure what a barging point is....

One might think you work in corporate with that last post!!

 

[Onestep2flt]

Everyone of us is replaceable. No one here isn't aware of that fact. And your right, there a great deal of people out of work in this country. Why is that again? Left wing conspiracy? Or outsourcing, ignorance, and plain old greed?
I dare say many of those unemployed are far more qualified than those currently working here. Actually that's pretty evident every day.

Think about if someone like Alan Mulally (from Ford) were at the helm instead our current management team? Or other executives that are currently unemployed that have more experience and more talent in getting a company to work together than those currently in Tempe? Think they would take on the same job for less than we are paying Parker and Co.? Think we could have a "job fair" to find out? Are they unemployed CEO's that will take on the job for 1992 wages? Maybe in a bad economy. Everyone lowers there expectations if they are unemployed, but it still doesn't matter what you pay your employees if can't get them to all pull in the same direction especially if they all think their CEO is a weasel and is fundamentally incapable of keeping the front line employees content - the same ones that picked up the tab for the merger that he is now presiding over.

So your happy being compensated at the lower end of the scale of your peers - we get it. Just don't expect everyone else to feel the same way, especially from the ones that sacrificed the most to make this merger possible. Yeah I know the common response - " if you don't like it you can always quit" and that's true. But it is also true that the West side is operating 25% + of our previous East route structure because LAS couldn't make money even at AWA pay rates. Free market: blah blah blah - It didn't stop SWA or Allegiant? Did it?

So now the Great Gazoo and Co. brings record load factors exacting the lowest yields back to the East in same the fashion AWA has always operated. And low and behold now we can only be profitable by charging fees and dumping the LAS operation. That's what we are supposed to believe? That's the East's fault? We are all over compensated even at the bottom of the scale of our peers. Please.

I am happy for you that your so content, and you feel that you are being fairly compensated (directly proportional to what the market will bear). And YOU are probably right, YOU are being compensated for what you think you are worth.

There are just many us that feel that do not share your same devalued opinion of our own self worth and what we do. No employee here is asking for more than a living wage with some acknowledgment (in the form of $$) of our own sacrifice that brought us to this place in time. The sacrifice that enabled both companies to survive. Tempe has had no problem rewarding themselves for that accomplishment.
Time to share a little with the little people....you know the employees.

No one care what the Baker makes as long as the Bread is good - that seems to have been apropos at the top. Right? Now it's time to pay the band, and dance with the one that brought you to the prom.

We now return you to the Rush Limbaugh show already in progress.

That was well said! No non-sense well thought out and spot on. Didn't on of your CEO's say you were only worth what you bargained for, or something like that?

 

[flybynite]

You all do realize that you are not underpaid and you deserve nothing more then the market will tolerate. There are tons more people that want to be flight attendants or used to be and they could replace everyone fairly easily. Not a good barging position to be in. Your concerns and gripes no matter how valid mean nothing because you have no leverage. And much as your rhetoric about class warfare fires up the base it is ridicules from a barging standpoint and would actually turn the public against you if you go public with your gripes and envy. If unions want to be successful they need to learn about economics and the real world and tone down the rhetoric and try and be a business partner not a bunch of complainers.

Ahem....you do realize we are one of the lowest paid mainline operations out there?

Not even close to industry standards?

And as to public opinion....I think they would find it interesting that they are putting their lives in the hands of safety pros who are being forced to live on food stamps. Hmmm? I think that might look good on the 6:00 news.

So while you're trying to say something to make your boss happy...and at the same time sound pretty stupid ( no surprise, again ) please keep in mind we know who you are and who you represent.

 

[ebwgs]

Upandaway once we've ratified a fair and equitable contract, and since you clearly don't need the money, please take your portion of the raise and improved working conditions, and use them to create an anti-Jim Jones Kool-Aid drinking non-profit to rehydrate those poor self-hating labor souls like yourself who feel that they deserve no more than a half ounce of non-stale Cheetos to sustain them and their families on a daily basis.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

If the best paid CEO in the industry can justify his pay then we can justify ours.

So why would you take ALL the moderates off the table in one fell swoop?

Smart, very smart.

Industry Standard or see how bad this can end up. We know what BK is like, do you? We already suffer bankruptcy wages without you trying to prolong them. This wouldn't look good on the resume for you. You would now get picked off as a failed management team. Would we have to suffer those "talent retention bonuses" AGAIN? . Run, run for the hills or at least to another airline,if they will have you. When your management team starts leaving for "other opportunities" you know you're in trouble. This is your chance to do it right.

Can you close the deal or can't you? So far you haven't been up to the task. So good luck with any merger or anything else without the cooperation of both the East and the West. You owe the West, BIG TIME.

Pay up or get out of the business. If you consider your sweat equity justification for your pay then we deserve the same. This is not the fractured pilots fighting each other. We are united to achieve a SUBSTANTIAL INCREASE in pay and benefits for both East and West. You got yours now it's our turn.

Vote No on anything less than an industry LEADING contract. Did I read something about LCC having the highest profit margins? Get serious or get fired. What was it Doug Parker got paid? BB anything handy?


BTW, smart move just before the crucial Xmas holiday. Piss'em off when you can least afford it. It always makes for good press but hey, the people who run LCC are used to being the worst in the industry so what does another gaffe matter. How did that profit from fees work out with the press?

Instead of the union walking out of talks with the company the company should walk out, and then they should fire the moron who suggested this bargaining position, just like they did the last time this happened.

PS. For those who have to justify our wages, I will point you to the old saw of "what the market will bear" just like management, until they decide to jump ship. We should reject anything less than what is our due, just like our colleagues at UA and CO.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Just curious , does anyone know how many F/A's in the JAN 9 callback from I gave my number up furlough class? MM! Thanx in advance!

 

[nick]

Just curious , does anyone know how many F/A's in the JAN 9 callback from I gave my number up furlough class? MM! Thanx in advance!

I don't know about the Jan 9 class, but I heard 48 of the 600plus VFLR are returning. I did find it interesting to hear that some of these offered to pay back the $10,000 to regain seniority. Company declined and f/a went to AFA who also said "No go, you signed a contract." They certainly don't know what they are in for. I have heard some reserve f/a say they were afraid recalls might try to use previous seniority on trips. I can't believe that would happen. Reserves on property now are certainly not new hires and I for one always know the seniority of the crew before I report for a trip.

 

[PHLfa88]

You all do realize that you are not underpaid and you deserve nothing more then the market will tolerate. There are tons more people that want to be flight attendants or used to be and they could replace everyone fairly easily. Not a good barging position to be in. Your concerns and gripes no matter how valid mean nothing because you have no leverage. And much as your rhetoric about class warfare fires up the base it is ridicules from a barging standpoint and would actually turn the public against you if you go public with your gripes and envy. If unions want to be successful they need to learn about economics and the real world and tone down the rhetoric and try and be a business partner not a bunch of complainers.

Yeah ...Your the one making that comment on the azn.com article!! Typical!! What Ever!!

 

[PHLfa88]

You all do realize that you are not underpaid and you deserve nothing more then the market will tolerate. There are tons more people that want to be flight attendants or used to be and they could replace everyone fairly easily. Not a good barging position to be in. Your concerns and gripes no matter how valid mean nothing because you have no leverage. And much as your rhetoric about class warfare fires up the base it is ridicules from a barging standpoint and would actually turn the public against you if you go public with your gripes and envy. If unions want to be successful they need to learn about economics and the real world and tone down the rhetoric and try and be a business partner not a bunch of complainers.

How are you enjoying the Profit Share money you get compliments of the East?

 

[Travelpro72]

UPNAWAY you can claim you are whomever you want but you sound more and more like MANAGEMENT every time you post here. You are probably a PAID employee stocking the boards here while you SHOULD be doing whatever it is you people actually DO. Why not find out where the plastic wine cups are for domestic first class. Is it still Chinease New Year? Moving along.