AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[flybynite]

Quick get the Mayor of Munchkinland! I think a house has fallen!
Flyby, if all the Munchkins in Munchkinland said the "which old witch" was bad and that her sisters weren't much better, would they all have a chip on their shoulders or would they all be sporting a new pair of ruby slippers? I don't call the office with a chip but I do end up with a headache. I don't believe I've ever "started a conversation" rude and discourteous either. You act as if you know me but I can assure you, you don't (not that it matters).
The problem with your logic ( that everyone at the CLT base is crazy, rude, discourteous, ill-mannered and that the leadership is pristine, above board, helpful and courteous" is flawed. How do I know? Because the membership spoke in very loud voices and they are still hopping mad. They want leadership that does what they're supposed to do...represent them. And what a novel concept that is too.
Also, I don't particularly care where the new office is. You, once again, missed the point. My question is whether or not an accurate "transfer of inventory" was kept? You know, that pesky little sheet that says this equipment was loaded from here and this equipment arrived here. A valid question since union dollars paid for things.
Now as for my manners, they are just fine thank you. It's my sarcasm that needs a little tweaking.
Sincerely, and I really mean it,
CLFox
P.S. By the way, just adore the emoticons. Nice touch.

Are you stupid on purpose? Do you really think someone is going to abscond with office equipment?

And no, I didn't miss anything. I just was trying to ignore the stupidity of it. <_<

 

[crazystnic]

This management team. ( I use that lightly) is about to lose complete control of this flying PIG

 

[crazylikefox]

Flyby,
I don't think we should take up too much space bantering back and forth. Afterall, others have things to say. I said my piece, you yours.
To respond or defend myself against your personal attacks would be pointless, so I won't.
It really only encourages you.
I will reiterate, however, it is my opinion that no one (I don't care who has, who is, or who will) should be allowed to hold multiple offices at the same time. If Glenda can hold the LECVP as Catwoman and the MECSEC&TR as Batgirl, it doesn't mean that she is effective. It only means that she cuddles with certain people.
If Cybil wants to hold other offices, she can try the local PTA or Girl Scout Headquarters for her excess energy. Cookies are a far cry from contracts.
By the way, which days is she in the Local office and which days is she in the MEC office? Just want to make sure she's not claiming time from both offices for the same days.
Am I afraid? Only of the mentality that union offices can only be held by the same people year after year after year and that the membership should accept it.
Dangerous concept that one. 😱

Now, I'm going to sleep to help my perky disposition.

 

[flybynite]

Flyby,
I don't think we should take up too much space bantering back and forth. Afterall, others have things to say. I said my piece, you yours.
To respond or defend myself against your personal attacks would be pointless, so I won't.
It really only encourages you.
I will reiterate, however, it is my opinion that no one (I don't care who has, who is, or who will) should be allowed to hold multiple offices at the same time. If Glenda can hold the LECVP as Catwoman and the MECSEC&TR as Batgirl, it doesn't mean that she is effective. It only means that she cuddles with certain people.
If Cybil wants to hold other offices, she can try the local PTA or Girl Scout Headquarters for her excess energy. Cookies are a far cry from contracts.
By the way, which days is she in the Local office and which days is she in the MEC office? Just want to make sure she's not claiming time from both offices for the same days.
Am I afraid? Only of the mentality that union offices can only be held by the same people year after year after year and that the membership should accept it.
Dangerous concept that one. 😱

Now, I'm going to sleep to help my perky disposition.

Crazy,

Your opinion is just that. And everyone has one. I just want the audience here to realize your's isn't the only one.

And not only that but what you suggest is absurd. And the audience needs to know this also.

You imply that there is some kind of nefarious something going on here.....and if that's what you think...I've got swamp land in Florida to sell to ya.

In fact, why don't you call Glenda and have this conversation with her and see how that goes? If you have the guts. Which I doubt. It's easy to make accusations on a web board but quite another person to person.

I don't think you'll be feeling so perky after that conversation.

 

[Travelpro72]

I'm gonna chime in here real quick before I head off to bed. I can say with CERTAINTY that this group of flight attendants is SICK AND TIRED of the current AFA landscape here at US and it WILL change. It doesn't matter what they think our opinion is of them. WE have the voice and the power to take over our union. Over the past few years it has gone downhill and FAST. Dispute that? The abilities shown by elected officials has been HORRIBLE and continues to be to this very day. Dispute that as you may but it's a FACT. WE have to deal with the company as we all know their feelings and attitude toward the flight attendant group. We're not going to sit around and be dictated to by the MEC/LEC and take it. Not getting it from AFA too. My final word here is ENOUGH! ! ! ! ! IT's DONE! ! ! ! Think what you want. Nighty nite.

 

[MyrnaMinkoff]

I don't know the results yet but if what if what is being is true.....I have a question for you. Just how old do you "think' Ann is? She's younger than me. And I'm not old.

You're just being scanky. Ann retire? Why? Are you one of those people that thinks that you're over 30 you can't be trusted or have any worth? Shut up.

To flybynite:

Way back in the annals of this thread, page 119, I believe, you responded to one of my infrequent posts with this spew of vitriol, and, in my confusion, I asked for a clarification of your particular beef with me, but no answer was forthcoming. Nothing in my post either expressed or implied any commentary on Ms. Crowley's chronological age, so I'm still quite bamboozled by being categorized as "scanky"[sic] and being told to "shut up," though it was quite astute of you to recognize from those few sentences my belief that everyone over thirty is untrustworthy and has, like, zero worth as a human being--including myself! What gave me away? You are brimming with insane insight-- and that's the best kind, because you don't have to arm yourself with pesky nuisances like factual information or sober logic, and you're free to launch self-righteous insults and accusations with moral impunity; I see that you have a gift for that! Though you never responded to me (and I checked back several times over the next week or so, but found no posts at all from you), I see you have turned up again. I noticed that in a recent post you expressed a desire to call the attention of this thread's readership to something or another, and I would like to do the same. Your tone is always hateful and intentionally provocative, and the manner in which you choose to address issues and individuals completely de-legitimizes any rational argument you might have (you don't, by the way, have any position that approaches sanity; I'm just saying...). For anyone who might be tempted to take anything you write seriously, I submit here Exhibit A, your post itself evidence that you either need help for a serious drinking problem or you are completely off your rocker. Oh, and I'm not sure you actually grasp the meaning of "skanky"; I can elucidate, if you'd like, providing as much lurid detail as you're comfortable with; I have personally borne witness to many examples of qualifying behavior.

 

[galley princess]

In my experience speaking with union reps, most of the time they cite what a nonstop job it is, and how flying ends up being easier after filling a rep position.

I buy that. I have no doubt that the job is a big PIA, so I usually don't carp when they get a few perks. I don't want the job, so there have to be some upsides to doing it.

Having said that, it cannot be the haven of people who just don't want to FLY anymore. They represent FLYING f/as. It is incompatible to not want to do the job that you represent.

I also know, and everyone else who flys knows, that we work with a minority of train wrecks and THEY are who union reps talk to and interact with the most, because they're the ones who need representation. Some of them are idiots, some have just gotten in over their heads, some got sick and never got their life back together, some. . . You get the picture. We have reps that painstakingly and compassionately help these people, and we should value them.

What is highly offensive is when a f/a with a stellar work record approaches the union about being jerked around and is greeted with the cynicism and put upon attitude that can be acquired by union reps. If that's where you are, GET THE HELL OUT OF THE OFFICE.

But what is also offensive is intellectual laziness. After the bankruptcy contract was implemented, f/as woke up to what they really agreed to, and of course, it wasn't pretty. Holding local union offices responsible for LTO is not realistic or acceptable. Nor is the fact that you have 20 yrs and are still on reserve. All the union can do is fight specfic violations of an abysmal contract. There are no solutions within that agreement.

Where this union took a left turn is that their cynicism took over. They began submitting to a certain outlook and refused to consider other views, worse still, they allowed one viewpoint to prevail as they negotiated. The worst sin they committed however (IMHO) is that they refused to listen to their membership, and worse, they abandoned key parts of our agreement without having the authority to do so! Who said we wanted PBS? Where's the survey? Who said we wanted a CSD program? Where's the return concession on the company's part for that? Who said to come down to below industry standard pay rate?

So, in the final analysis, we want them out not because they aren't intelligent, dedicated or decent human beings, but because they have FAILED. The documentation is there. That tentative is a FAILURE. They can give every reason in the book as to why. It doesn't matter. It's over, they had five years. We don't have to accept their failure just because that was the best they could do.

Now, if anyone knows the nuts and bolts of what we can do to undo their mess, I would love to hear it.

 

[crazylikefox]

GP,
You have said it well. By the lack of response to your final question, I suppose we are all a bit stymied. It's a very good question...how DO we undo the mess? It probably will take quite some time and tearing things apart and rebuilding will be arduous.
I believe we are on the right track (getting rid of the old) and hopefully the momentum (to take back our union and make it work for us) will continue.

There does need to be a certain methodology to the process. One: identify what needs changing the most i.e. prioritize our goals. I, myself, vote for the changing of the guard already in progress. Two: Ensure that we have strong negotiators that will listen to the membership and act accordingly. Three: Look at what has been agreed to so far and, again, get rid of the most offensive areas first (right now there are quite a few to choose from but because we haven't "signed off" on compensation, I'd like to start dismantling the PBS. I think it is an atrocious idea that may negatively impact a great deal of the membership; after that the Reserve section, JMO).

I look to others here for more insight. Maybe we can fine tune it a bit more.

 

[Onestep2flt]

GP,
You have said it well. By the lack of response to your final question, I suppose we are all a bit stymied. It's a very good question...how DO we undo the mess? It probably will take quite some time and tearing things apart and rebuilding will be arduous.
I believe we are on the right track (getting rid of the old) and hopefully the momentum (to take back our union and make it work for us) will continue.

There does need to be a certain methodology to the process. One: identify what needs changing the most i.e. prioritize our goals. I, myself, vote for the changing of the guard already in progress. Two: Ensure that we have strong negotiators that will listen to the membership and act accordingly. Three: Look at what has been agreed to so far and, again, get rid of the most offensive areas first (right now there are quite a few to choose from but because we haven't "signed off" on compensation, I'd like to start dismantling the PBS. I think it is an atrocious idea that may negatively impact a great deal of the membership; after that the Reserve section, JMO).

I look to others here for more insight. Maybe we can fine tune it a bit more.

Your goals appear sound and just. Thinking on that for a while. How do you go about with the task of changing sections that have already been closed? My understanding is that the company and union have to agree to open up these sections. I don't see your company doing you any favors here. You are correct to deal with the areas that are not closed first but the task is a little more involved than adding a little more sugar to the recipe. There is also more than just you and the company here. Remember, as we have discussed here you are not alone. How do you propose to convince the west that they are going in the wrong direction? Although it appears there is a definite rift between the two groups they (west) still seem to be soldiering on to the same beat of the drum as your ringmaster. Changing drummers is the easy part. You have the rest of the orchestra to consider though. As pointed out a few pages back by the MEC VP of the west, they are in the middle of elections that may come into play here. You may get the same group that was there but just could not work with Flores or they have a completely different agenda. You could end up with a new group to work with out west that is Flores like or they will be your saving grace. Regardless of who shows up to the rodeo, there are a few more cowboys/girls than just the folks on the eastern range.

You may be going down the right path, but it is not going to be a short one by any means. As an example your recent events in Charlotte. The election there monitored by the DOL indicates corruption not just at your MEC but in the international office as well. Trying to expose that and clean house there may be beyond the capabilities of any one airline group. AFA represents how many airlines? Not saying it is an impossible task, but expect some black eyes and some serious bruises going up against the international office. They have all the resources available since most of your dues go to them. Not saying it is the right time to abandon AFA because that could leave you even more vulnerable, but you do have to consider there is more involved than just the local issues.

I have a question about the recall in Philly I don't know the answer to. If all officers are recalled what happens next? I assume an interim group will be put in place. Who chooses the interim leaders? There was a general election around the corner. Does the recall change the time frame of the election in any way? Just curious how that all unfolds.

Anyway, it is definitely a mess!

 

[flybynite]

To flybynite:

Way back in the annals of this thread, page 119, I believe, you responded to one of my infrequent posts with this spew of vitriol, and, in my confusion, I asked for a clarification of your particular beef with me, but no answer was forthcoming. Nothing in my post either expressed or implied any commentary on Ms. Crowley's chronological age, so I'm still quite bamboozled by being categorized as "scanky"[sic] and being told to "shut up," though it was quite astute of you to recognize from those few sentences my belief that everyone over thirty is untrustworthy and has, like, zero worth as a human being--including myself! What gave me away? You are brimming with insane insight-- and that's the best kind, because you don't have to arm yourself with pesky nuisances like factual information or sober logic, and you're free to launch self-righteous insults and accusations with moral impunity; I see that you have a gift for that! Though you never responded to me (and I checked back several times over the next week or so, but found no posts at all from you), I see you have turned up again. I noticed that in a recent post you expressed a desire to call the attention of this thread's readership to something or another, and I would like to do the same. Your tone is always hateful and intentionally provocative, and the manner in which you choose to address issues and individuals completely de-legitimizes any rational argument you might have (you don't, by the way, have any position that approaches sanity; I'm just saying...). For anyone who might be tempted to take anything you write seriously, I submit here Exhibit A, your post itself evidence that you either need help for a serious drinking problem or you are completely off your rocker. Oh, and I'm not sure you actually grasp the meaning of "skanky"; I can elucidate, if you'd like, providing as much lurid detail as you're comfortable with; I have personally borne witness to many examples of qualifying behavior.

I am so sorry that my posts have hurt your feelings. For that I'm truly sorry. Yes I can be quite provocative and that is the whole point. To make you think. To make you question. Now don't get your skirt in a bunch....I'm not implying you can't think. What I'm trying to get out there is ......you don't have the facts....you think you do yet you don't. There are under currents at play here that go back years.

I don't check this place everyday. If I did, I would be nuts. So, I'm sorry I didn't respond to your reply before now. And yes, I have been snarky of late. I always get snarky when reading the bloody posts here.

And again, I'm sorry I was so rude and nasty.

 

[flybynite]

Your goals appear sound and just. Thinking on that for a while. How do you go about with the task of changing sections that have already been closed? My understanding is that the company and union have to agree to open up these sections. I don't see your company doing you any favors here. You are correct to deal with the areas that are not closed first but the task is a little more involved than adding a little more sugar to the recipe. There is also more than just you and the company here. Remember, as we have discussed here you are not alone. How do you propose to convince the west that they are going in the wrong direction? Although it appears there is a definite rift between the two groups they (west) still seem to be soldiering on to the same beat of the drum as your ringmaster. Changing drummers is the easy part. You have the rest of the orchestra to consider though. As pointed out a few pages back by the MEC VP of the west, they are in the middle of elections that may come into play here. You may get the same group that was there but just could not work with Flores or they have a completely different agenda. You could end up with a new group to work with out west that is Flores like or they will be your saving grace. Regardless of who shows up to the rodeo, there are a few more cowboys/girls than just the folks on the eastern range.

You may be going down the right path, but it is not going to be a short one by any means. As an example your recent events in Charlotte. The election there monitored by the DOL indicates corruption not just at your MEC but in the international office as well. Trying to expose that and clean house there may be beyond the capabilities of any one airline group. AFA represents how many airlines? Not saying it is an impossible task, but expect some black eyes and some serious bruises going up against the international office. They have all the resources available since most of your dues go to them. Not saying it is the right time to abandon AFA because that could leave you even more vulnerable, but you do have to consider there is more involved than just the local issues.

I have a question about the recall in Philly I don't know the answer to. If all officers are recalled what happens next? I assume an interim group will be put in place. Who chooses the interim leaders? There was a general election around the corner. Does the recall change the time frame of the election in any way? Just curious how that all unfolds.

Anyway, it is definitely a mess!

Your supposition that there was corruption involved with the CLT election is false. It was however a terrible snafu by AFA National. And I'm not so sure that the company didn't play a hand in it. I'm not saying that the company tried to goof it up too but it was like the perfect storm. Two bases were closing and they were displacing f/a's out of PHL. I don't think anyone knew where anyone was being transfered at the time. We had f/a's all over the place and no one knew where they were landing. Big mess. It wouldn't have been a bad idea to have held off on the election for another month or so just until the dust had settled. They did delay it by a month as I recall but that wasn't enough.

If there is a recall in PHL, the MEC chooses the interim reps until an election can be held. I don't know when they were due for a new election but it seems like it was just around the corner. Maybe next year? Some one correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Crzipilot]

Can anyone tell me if the results of the latest base transfer has been posted? If so, where are the remaining vacancies open at?

Sorry to interrupt you current topic....just looking for info....

Thanks...

 

[flygirl74]

I heard that at the latest PHX Crew News session the flight attendants walked out on Doug & Co!! Was anyone there to confirm? And I wonder if we will get to see it online! 😀

 

[Americawestie]

I heard that at the latest PHX Crew News session the flight attendants walked out on Doug & Co!! Was anyone there to confirm? And I wonder if we will get to see it online! 😀

I was there, it was great! I rather doubt they have the b*lls to put it on line. Dougie was a stuttering idiot. I hope they finally got the message that we do not believe the crap they spew. Walking out on him, chanting through the training center was like a scene out of "Norma Rae"!

BTW...three FA's from the East were there, when they identified themselves we gave them a standing ovation. If management has any dreams of dividing us, we did our part to show they will not be successful.

 

[Harry Callahan]

When does chaos start ?