What's new

AFA labor discussion (Work related)

With the federal mediator at the table to push things along, what do you believe he'd think watching yet another delay. If he were to get ticked off and recess the flight attendants then what? We'd have no leg to stand on, our ability to vote the contract down would be gone and therefore have no ability to start the process of opening up sections. The mediator at the table won't stand for it. Hell we complained enough about the pace of negotiations so we then delay it more ourselves only to run the high risk of being recessed? NO WAY! ! ! Finish the contract and THEN let the LECP's do their thing. I see what is going on.
 
With the federal mediator at the table to push things along, what do you believe he'd think watching yet another delay. If he were to get ticked off and recess the flight attendants then what? We'd have no leg to stand on, our ability to vote the contract down would be gone and therefore have no ability to start the process of opening up sections. The mediator at the table won't stand for it. Hell we complained enough about the pace of negotiations so we then delay it more ourselves only to run the high risk of being recessed? NO WAY! ! ! Finish the contract and THEN let the LECP's do their thing. I see what is going on.


Okay, I do not pretend to understand all of the fine points of this, but assuming you're right, we basically have to play this out?

If the scheduling and reserve sections are closed then basically we're left with this inferior tentative and compensation is all that is left to negotiate?

Assuming industry standard wages, US still makes out like a bandit. That tentative is concessionary to what we have NOW.

What a colossal waste of time to go through this and then vote it down. That document is a definition of the word "CONCESSION".

This is serious crap, people. For some of us this may be the last or second to the last contract, and this is what we get? After 9 years of sub-human status?

Poor, poor, poor.

I agree that IAM/AFA is a non issue for us at this point, but I disagree that IAM would be a bad thing for F/As.

IAM could represent basket weavers. The important thing is that they play hardball , they like to WIN and finally, they use REAL PROFESSIONAL negotiators.

US f/as are and have been poorly served by AFA. That we are left with this is a travesty.

How do they possibly expect to rally unity with this piece of crap?

Whatever, bring on the green.

And the NO ballot.
 
Nice huh? With the federal mediator at the table, the negotiating process takes on a new direction. The direction of NOT looking back and a serious attempt at negotiating in good faith and closing the remaining sections. We ALL know the t/a so far has been terrible. That isn't the concern of the mediator. He's there to make sure the process is followed through as it's intended and move it along and at an aggressive speed to boot. He catches wind that we want to recall as we're at the finish line and he very well could recess the group. If you get recessed it could be for six months or a few years.....his decision. If that were to happen, the flight attendants would then find themselves with NO LEGAL RIGHT to do a damn thing. You're released...see ya later. That then would satisfy the company by keeping EVERYTHING as is. The group would find themselves with NOTHING TO VOTE ON. This t/a must be finished, sent to the LECP's to make their decision as to send it to the membership for a vote or not. THAT is where we make CHANGE! ! ! ! As bad as it sounds, a process MUST be followed. This has NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING to do with the current LECP's backing down. Just crossing their T's and dotting their i's. When it comes time to vote we all know how it is going to go. I'm pretty confident in that most of us feel the same way. It's a NO VOTE! ! Mike won't be there to hash out the sections again nor will his sidekick Carol and her language she writes that is as twisted as Lombard Street. 😉
 
Nice huh? With the federal mediator at the table, the negotiating process takes on a new direction. The direction of NOT looking back and a serious attempt at negotiating in good faith and closing the remaining sections. We ALL know the t/a so far has been terrible. That isn't the concern of the mediator. He's there to make sure the process is followed through as it's intended and move it along and at an aggressive speed to boot. He catches wind that we want to recall as we're at the finish line and he very well could recess the group. If you get recessed it could be for six months or a few years.....his decision. If that were to happen, the flight attendants would then find themselves with NO LEGAL RIGHT to do a damn thing. You're released...see ya later. That then would satisfy the company by keeping EVERYTHING as is. The group would find themselves with NOTHING TO VOTE ON. This t/a must be finished, sent to the LECP's to make their decision as to send it to the membership for a vote or not. THAT is where we make CHANGE! ! ! ! As bad as it sounds, a process MUST be followed. This has NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING to do with the current LECP's backing down. Just crossing their T's and dotting their i's. When it comes time to vote we all know how it is going to go. I'm pretty confident in that most of us feel the same way. It's a NO VOTE! ! Mike won't be there to hash out the sections again nor will his sidekick Carol and her language she writes that is as twisted as Lombard Street. 😉

Thank you for explaining it.

Okay. Let's bring it.

The way I see it, US is having a hard week in the media. Toxic airplanes, lousy service rankings.

Fasten your seatbelts.
 
That mediator is fully aware of what the company proposal was. We need to close it up, send it out and VOTE IT DOWN! ! ! Then and only then can we get serious about where we're going. I have a feeling we'll all be dusting off our green CHAOS shirts. I may need a new one by now. :lol: I'm ready to take it to the mat and will do so if it meant skipping a car payment and eating oodles of noodles. ENOUGH! ! ! ! Hell I'll even go grom Grey Goose to Nickoli for a short time. 😉
 
You know we really do get it, You don't like Mike Flores, sitting there at the table.

The last few days may have been tough but give it a rest.

Do thoughts of him constantly run through your head like a chorus from a Justin Bieber song? Sooooo annoying it just makes you want to throw a teenage girl gauntlet at the new East LEC officers.

Perhaps this will help you. It all might be a moot point anyway with the future of the AFA depending on the outcome of the United/Continental vote.

I think it is way more than one person that "gets" the fact that something is wrong at US Airways that Mr. Flores and Miss Austin are still leading the negotiations. Of even bigger concern is the fact that your new leadership appears to already be backing down and retreating from the will of the flight attendants. Besides it is more old school than Justin Bieber. Think Madona "Like a virgin". While very carefully crafted, the recent communique to constituents frorm your new Philadelphia leadership is a little confusing. While trying to address the direct question of what to do about change at the negotiating table, the letter seems to fall into a trap. Rather than just say we are working this issue on several fronts and we will announce our game plan soon, it starts to set you up with an eventual reason/excuse as to why their plan may fail. Telling the story of the national mediator and his aggressive schedule and how he only wants to move the process forward.
That is all fine and dandy but does not change the fact that the negotiating team needs to go. Several points to make about this. It may be true that the national mediator might be irritated with a change in the negotiating committee, but the fact remains that an overwhelming majority of flight attendants believe that the negotiators are not speaking for them. The mediator is suppose to be a NEUTRAL party and should not be directly involved with or influence the internal affairs of the union. Remember all those words and little terms they like to throw out like negotiating in good faith. While that is usually a term used for the party you are negotiating with it seems to fit here as well. It is difficult to negotiate in good faith knowing that the party negotiating for you is not following the will of the people they are representing. The other fact that has been thrown out here is that your constitution states you can recall the people in question with or without cause. The people that were elected in Philly should be well aware of the fact of the issues considering that if I am not mistaken that several people running for office were directly involved with the recall several weeks before. Was this recall not all about replacing the MEC President? I would have thought that this new aggressive, go getter, no- holds- barred fighter would come out swinging like everyone said she would. Now, just a week into it she says: "We absolutely need to reach a point where we have a tentative agreement sent to the LEC Presidents for their review. Changing negotiating members at this time would lead to further delays, and in the end, all options are on the table to get us an agreement." While this does have a positive tone to it, it sure gives the appearance that you are being set up for failure. Sounds like what she is saying is that big bad mediator is kind of scary and we would not want to delay the schedule. Are you serious? Would you rather delay more or end up with contract that is no better than the one you have? I know there is more at play here. I just think that what was written while upbeat trying to say we are on this and will keep you informed of our strategy. I just think if you read between the lines it is saying don't blame us if we don't get anything done here because our hands are tied. Sounds like the angle might be to get a contract and pray that the flight attendants will vote it down. If that is the strategy I hope all 33% of you vote no. Kind of frightening to think about. I suppose you could have a sudden unity session and the MEC could vote not to send any tentative agreement to the members. I really hope there is more hope than that though. I would think in a long negotiations process it would not be too unheard of for there to be changes in your negotiations team for a nuber of valid reasons. One of them being they are not representing your needs in the process.

On a related note, I find it puzzling why quite a few people that were on the front line of the battle to oust your Supreme Leader are now in the we better not rock the boat camp. That is a pretty big departure from the battle cries of the last many, many months.

As far as AFA disappearing, I don't think that will happen. While the United vote will be interesting to watch, I think in the end they will be the winners. AFA started at United and United has far more flight attendants than Continental. It does seem that the Continental contract is far superior but that is not why people will vote one way or the other. Even if AFA looses they will not disappear. They still represent quite a few airlines including US Airways. Guess you may see a dues increase soon though if AFA is defeated at United!

I still think you should give a little time for the new entourage to follow through. The new leader in Philly said 30 days. I guess in 30 days you will have your answer of what kind of leadership you got. After that is anyone's guess.

Why Madona instead of Bieber? Cause I can't just stop thinking you all might be getting screwed!
 
Well, I guess I should have read a little further as I see Travel had replied with an explanation. I was replying to what I had read thus far. Plus, I was distracted by all the hoopla around Pitbull. OOPS on me!

However a lot of what I said I still think is true. Your plan appears to be exactly what I was thinking. You are either trying to get all the MEC on board to reject sending it to the members or trying to get your weak voter group to vote no. While this is probably where you will end up, I think it should be a last resort. With the "New" hopefully all on the same page group of leaders I would think their would be a little influence to perhaps persuade Flores to give up his fight and he and Miss Austin are welcome to do the right thing and leave! I think if you do it any other way it may be too late.

If you wait for a vote by the flight attendant group you may in up in trouble just with voter turnout. Remember your Phoenix based brother and sisters are going to the food pantry! With the traditional voting by your eastern bases and starved Phoenix folks you may just have a Flores contract by default. You Might have a little leverage if the Phoenix MEC is on board with you. I am pretty sure there would be no love lost on their part to show Flores and Austin the door. This needs to be stopped before it goes out for a vote to the flight attendants. If it gets that far I believe it will be too late. I don't see how if you are all collectively on board to rid yourselves of the negotiating team why it could not be done. I guess the problems there really do go all the way to the top! Is is not quite the conundrum? Everyone tip toeing around saying "we must speak with one voice" while the head voice is singing a completely different tune! You guys say you must do this or the company might find out. I think they already know! Time to let your flight attendant group know that you are listening and start standing up to to the bully on the block. I think it is unfortunate that I believe he has you right where he wants you!

Again, as you said. The mediator could care less about the sections that are closed. They just care about the pace of negotiations and not who the negotiators are. If that is the case, there must be something in the playbook to change the coach with a minimum of distraction. I have no clue, but there has to be something outside of letting it play out and try to get a no vote. That could be a very disappointing outcome otherwise. Wish there was a cut and dry answer but I know that is not the case. Good luck!
 
Well, since no one wants to touch this one with a ten foot pole....maybe I can explain without hurting anyones feelings.


It looked as though this person had taken a bribe.

Not looking good for somebody. Or anyone for that matter.


Finish it flybynite....

Key words used "looked as though".
Your posting is very deceptive.

I recall this person was exonerated, the Company wanted her gone so badly that they put out the bait (of which she did not take). What to do?
How do you (the Company) get someone to go that won't go?
Care to finish it?
 
Nice huh? With the federal mediator at the table, the negotiating process takes on a new direction. The direction of NOT looking back and a serious attempt at negotiating in good faith and closing the remaining sections. We ALL know the t/a so far has been terrible. That isn't the concern of the mediator. He's there to make sure the process is followed through as it's intended and move it along and at an aggressive speed to boot. He catches wind that we want to recall as we're at the finish line and he very well could recess the group. If you get recessed it could be for six months or a few years.....his decision. If that were to happen, the flight attendants would then find themselves with NO LEGAL RIGHT to do a damn thing. You're released...see ya later. That then would satisfy the company by keeping EVERYTHING as is. The group would find themselves with NOTHING TO VOTE ON. This t/a must be finished, sent to the LECP's to make their decision as to send it to the membership for a vote or not. THAT is where we make CHANGE! ! ! ! As bad as it sounds, a process MUST be followed. This has NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING to do with the current LECP's backing down. Just crossing their T's and dotting their i's. When it comes time to vote we all know how it is going to go. I'm pretty confident in that most of us feel the same way. It's a NO VOTE! ! Mike won't be there to hash out the sections again nor will his sidekick Carol and her language she writes that is as twisted as Lombard Street. 😉

I agree that the process is important. But certainly, the individual players are less so. If a member of the Company's negotiating team is promoted to a position unrelated to Inflight, or takes a job at another carrier and leaves US Airways, or wins the Powerball Lottery and retires, they would be replaced, and the process would continue. Same for AFA, if a member of the negotiating team is replaced, for whatever reason, the process will continue.
 
On a related note, I find it puzzling why quite a few people that were on the front line of the battle to oust your Supreme Leader are now in the we better not rock the boat camp. That is a pretty big departure from the battle cries of the last many, many months.


This is exactly the point....I'm not puzzled. I just figured when I saw the results, that this would ensue next.

Typical and quite expected.
 
The flight attendants could be recessed though. I'm not sure what would happen in the case of a company person leaving their JNC seat. As for the flight attendants....the federal mediator could very well recess the group. If that happens there is NO contract to vote on. That in turn leaves the company to work the two divided groups under concessionary and bottom of the industry wages. That quite frankly is a risk I'm not willing to take.
 
Finish it flybynite....

Key words used "looked as though".
Your posting is very deceptive.

I recall this person was exonerated, the Company wanted her gone so badly that they put out the bait (of which she did not take). What to do?
How do you (the Company) get someone to go that won't go?
Care to finish it?

What's interesting is that after 6 years, people still don't know all of the facts of this situation except the parties involved. Myself included.

What I do know is it was so awful, Pat Friend was called in to help bring a resolution to the situation. There were posting to that effect on this board back in Apr05. TX chose to resign her position as MEC pres instead of go thru the recall process. I can't say I blame her. She also wrote a letter to her members trying to explain some of this without going into too much detail. She owed them that.

I wasn't trying to be deceptive. It's just not worth rehashing. It's over and has been over for 6 years.
 
The flight attendants could be recessed though. I'm not sure what would happen in the case of a company person leaving their JNC seat. As for the flight attendants....the federal mediator could very well recess the group. If that happens there is NO contract to vote on. That in turn leaves the company to work the two divided groups under concessionary and bottom of the industry wages. That quite frankly is a risk I'm not willing to take.


I hear what you are saying, but I just don't see the "risk." We currently work under a concessionary agreement that was forced upon us during the Company's two trips through Bankruptcy Court. Our representatives, as best I can tell, are negotiating a T/A that is, in many respects, worse that what we currently have. So, I have to ask: Is it better to be released and live a few more months with what we have (including the "Change in Control" and "Scope" language that the Company would love to do away with), or to keep a negotiating team in place that seems more concerned about what the Company wants than it is about what it's members need. We can agree to disagree ... I just don't see a downside to replacing negotiators, so long as the AFA continues to work towards an agreement in good faith.
 
I hear what you are saying, but I just don't see the "risk." We currently work under a concessionary agreement that was forced upon us during the Company's two trips through Bankruptcy Court. Our representatives, as best I can tell, are negotiating a T/A that is, in many respects, worse that what we currently have. So, I have to ask: Is it better to be released and live a few more months with what we have (including the "Change in Control" and "Scope" language that the Company would love to do away with), or to keep a negotiating team in place that seems more concerned about what the Company wants than it is about what it's members need. We can agree to disagree ... I just don't see a downside to replacing negotiators, so long as the AFA continues to work towards an agreement in good faith.


Now I know I'm going to get busted for this but I don't see a need to change our negotiators now. And this my reasoning....they're knee deep in it & they know the players. Changing our team now would delay everything. Which plays right into the company's hand. And believe me they are sitting back... smoking cigars, sipping whiskey and laughing at our shenanigans. <_<

They've had a plan and worked it. Lord...they've got pie charts and bullets keeping them on track. They are bulldogs and will do anything to hold their line. Make no mistake they are serious and they are not playing nice as we all know. These people are anti-union to the core and this is what they are getting paid for. Mike and Carol are very aware of this. I'm afraid if we get someone else in there, they'll get totally rolled over.

We don't have to like what they bring back to us. We can always vote it down. We've done it before and we can do it again. In fact, I like the idea. Make them go back to the table after a no vote.

Just my opinion.
 
Now I know I'm going to get busted for this but I don't see a need to change our negotiators now. And this my reasoning....they're knee deep in it & they know the players. Changing our team now would delay everything. Which plays right into the company's hand. And believe me they are sitting back... smoking cigars, sipping whiskey and laughing at our shenanigans. <_<

They've had a plan and worked it. Lord...they've got pie charts and bullets keeping them on track. They are bulldogs and will do anything to hold their line. Make no mistake they are serious and they are not playing nice as we all know. These people are anti-union to the core and this is what they are getting paid for. Mike and Carol are very aware of this. I'm afraid if we get someone else in there, they'll get totally rolled over.

We don't have to like what they bring back to us. We can always vote it down. We've done it before and we can do it again. In fact, I like the idea. Make them go back to the table after a no vote.

Just my opinion.


There is a lot of value in experience. And Mike and Carol deserve thanks for their service (and, truth be told, are probably not going anywhere). But, if your argument is "let the devil that we know bring us crap so that we can vote it down" ... we should all be afraid.

I can't help being concerned that the majority of F/A's that take the time to vote on a sub-par T/A will to too scared to reject it ... then where will we be? Especially if the MEC is cowed into sending a sub-par T/A out with a YES recommendation, and puts on road shows to spin the good and down-play the bad ....
 

Latest posts

Back
Top