AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[Travelpro72]

If I want to vote No fine? Hmmm just what Mike said at the meeting. Nice huh? As for weakening the union, I think the JNC is making the members come together more now than ever. Afterall WE are the union. Keep believing what you want when you arrive for your flights. I know what's going on and what the pulse of the company is my friend. Getting opinions from f/a's afraid to confront you and speak their mind on your cross country treck from PHX to CLT doesn't count. Oh and Flybynite I wasn't talking about you...no worries. In closing the JNC has their finger on the pulse alright. THEIR OWN! ! ! I'm sensing defib being needed soon. Maybe that will happen after compensation is made public. 😉

 

[Onestep2flt]

Line holder issues are huge, too. There a lot more of us than there used to be that have been on the current reserve system and hated it enough to be concerned about a new one. A lot of things have happened at this company that no one could ever imagine. (PIT closing being an example.) Things happen, things change.

But, a lot of our issues affect block holders and reserves equally. We do care about compensation (check out CO/UAs agreement or DL/NW and you will see how our pay compares). All of us should receive a pay raise. And, not a just few cents or a dollar. WE all top out at 14 years at compared to 16 years and $50+ at other airlines. We care about deadhead pay, and split trip pay. There should never be a split trip that pays less than the min pay for each day. We also care about duration of the TA. DL/NW's is for 26 months.

We do know what the reserves have to endure. Talk to anyone that was in PIT at the end or the many F/As that are back on reserve as a result of BOS and LGA closing. And, Pref Bid is no one's friend. Not blockholder or reserve.

We all need to look beyond our own personal needs and look at this contract as a whole. We must think about our future and make sure we can live with all parts of the contract, not just the parts that affect us presently. Most of all, we all need to remember that voting no and turning it down is not a bad thing. We don't go to buy a car and accept the first price the salesman offers. We don't accept a bid from a contractor for a new roof without negotiating a better price. We don't have major surgery without a second opinion, so let's not settle for the first contract that comes our way.

I agree with everything you are saying. I did not intend to minimize line holder issues. As I have been pointing out all along it is not merely a reserve issue or line holder issue. It is about you guys getting a fair contract for ALL flight attendants. That would include east, west, line holder or reserve.

What I tried to point out to oh really was the fact that the negotiating committee has all but ignored the reserves. They are focusing on pleasing the majority group because that will get their agenda passed without the reserves help. The core issues for line holders from what my friends say are the sick, vacation and pay. I am sure there is more to it than that but historical data that has been shared here would indicate if Mr. Flores can improve these core items it will be much easier for his agenda to pass when a tentative agreement comes in play. Thus throwing the reserves and a good portion of line holders under the bus.

 

[malikie]

HEY MANAGEMENT----YOU TOOK FROM US WHAT YOU NEEDED TO GET BACK ON YOUR FEET AFTER POOR MANAGEMENT NOW GIVE US BACK WHAT WE DESERVE SINCE WE SAVED THIS COMPANY.

What you gave up for your management did no good. The company you worked for no longer exists just like the company I worked for. They both ceased to exist in Sept 2005.

You think the present management cares what you gave up to save a failing airline? They will pursue the contract they can live with.

If the rank and file votes it down and there is an impasse and your group is relased to strike the company will take a page from the former Northwest playbook and start training new flight attendants in the event of a strike. With unemployment just under 10% they will have no problem finding people who want work.

 

[OhReally]

If I want to vote No fine? Hmmm just what Mike said at the meeting. Nice huh? As for weakening the union, I think the JNC is making the members come together more now than ever. Afterall WE are the union. Keep believing what you want when you arrive for your flights. I know what's going on and what the pulse of the company is my friend. Getting opinions from f/a's afraid to confront you and speak their mind on your cross country treck from PHX to CLT doesn't count. Oh and Flybynite I wasn't talking about you...no worries. In closing the JNC has their finger on the pulse alright. THEIR OWN! ! ! I'm sensing defib being needed soon. Maybe that will happen after compensation is made public. 😉

Hey, DebbieDowner, I didn't know you had the power to appoint me to a union office. A little premature, don't you think?

The power play going on here is so predictable, and so is your behavior. Unfortunately, what will happen to the rest of us is predictable as well.

Didn't want to hear that strike stuff from Mike, did you? A little scary? It's a fact. Welcome to reality. I hope you recognize it when it hits. If you don't want what is presented to the membership after the company gives their final offer, we have two options; accept, or vote to initiate a job action.

The only real power we have as a union is just that. UNION. As a union, we have to be willing to take that step, take it together, and display solidarity. And everyone here had better care what the company thinks, because they carefully monitor what's going on with the union, and exploit weaknesses. right now, they have lots of material.

I see your circular firing squad in action, and I hope you can live with what you're trying to do to the rest of us. I'm going to save this thread for the future. BFN.

 

[VAflyGal]

HEY MANAGEMENT----YOU TOOK FROM US WHAT YOU NEEDED TO GET BACK ON YOUR FEET AFTER POOR MANAGEMENT NOW GIVE US BACK WHAT WE DESERVE SINCE WE SAVED THIS COMPANY.

What you gave up for your management did no good. The company you worked for no longer exists just like the company I worked for. They both ceased to exist in Sept 2005.

You think the present management cares what you gave up to save a failing airline? They will pursue the contract they can live with.

If the rank and file votes it down and there is an impasse and your group is relased to strike the company will take a page from the former Northwest playbook and start training new flight attendants in the event of a strike. With unemployment just under 10% they will have no problem finding people who want work.

You're right. The company I worked for hasn't existed since 2005. Let's talk about what the company I currently work for and some of the strategies they have implemented that have had a direct affect on flight attendant work and quality of life.
1). No more domestic IFE. We demo EVERY flight. We get questions about why we don't have IFE when JetBlue offers state of the art IFE. We get eye rolls when we explain the company's reasoning behind it. We get complaints. Daily.
2) No more free meals and the removal of the ovens in coach. Ok, I get it, sign of the times. Let's talk about all the snacks and specialty beverages we sell (of which the company sees 100% of the profit. Let's talk about the current management's decision to utilize a less than par HHD which often won't even read a credit card. Let's talk about all the extra time and PITA factor it has created the f/a's working.
3). Minimum crews, ALWAYS. We are doing all this extra work which takes extra time, but we haven't gotten our "extra / supplemental) flight attendants back (think A320 or 737-400). Nope. 2 flight attendants are responsible for serving 138 and 132 pax (respectively) with a full on mobile concession stand, with a pour service.
4). Let's talk about the carry on bag nightmare. The current company has made millions and millions and MILLIONS of dollars charging fees for bags, which aren't going anywhere. This has created a carry on nightmare. The overheads fill up quickly, we gate check between 10-20 bags per flight, we get verbally abused by angry customers who are fed up, and more times than not, we have bags stacked all over the galley (blocking the doors during boarding) because there are too many of the plane. Hello, FAA. If we had to evacuate at the gate, the baggage would block the exits. It's a NIGHTMARE.
5). Current management still has us cleaning the planes, saving millions of dollars by not paying utility personnel or contract cleaners, but having flight attendants do it FOR FREE.
6). Current management has been drawing out contract negotiations and has said on numerous occasions that LCC has an upper hand financially based on lower labor costs. (Are you angry yet?!?!)
I could go on, but I think I've made my point
NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.
Not. One. More. Concession.

 

[malikie]

has been drawing out contract negotiations and has said on numerous occasions that LCC has an upper hand financially based on lower labor costs. (Are you angry yet?!?!)
I could go on, but I think I've made my point
NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.
Not. One. More. Concession.
[/quote]

And we understand that. But reality is that this is how our new company is. The reality of the marketplace is, without those snacks, bag fees, short staffed, and low labor costs this company would not be here.

The airline industry is far from out of the woods yet. The economy is still sluggish and oil is projected to go back up.

You can all dream about the glory days of US Airways and what you had. But that is all it is the past. You may get a few things back like vacation and sick pay and a moderate raise, but the company like I said will get the contract that they can live with.

And before you call me management, I am not, I am an outsider not hindered by union propganda or bitterness towards a company that did not put you into a mess that you were already in.

I wish you all luck in obtaining a new contract.

 

[really?noreally]

If I want to vote No fine? Hmmm just what Mike said at the meeting. Nice huh? As for weakening the union, I think the JNC is making the members come together more now than ever. Afterall WE are the union. Keep believing what you want when you arrive for your flights. I know what's going on and what the pulse of the company is my friend. Getting opinions from f/a's afraid to confront you and speak their mind on your cross country treck from PHX to CLT doesn't count. Oh and Flybynite I wasn't talking about you...no worries. In closing the JNC has their finger on the pulse alright. THEIR OWN! ! ! I'm sensing defib being needed soon. Maybe that will happen after compensation is made public. 😉

I would have to agree that there is more solidarity now among the flight attendants at usairways east than ever. We are showing the union reps and the company that we have a voice and we will not accept what we seen thus far coming out of these negotiations- JNC / local reps start listening and stop insulting our intelligence - we will not vote for this merged agreement if it continues to contain concessions/this reserve language and many many flight attendants of all seniority levels are on board with voting no. We are standing together, the numbers are growing, our voice will get louder and there will be no merged flight attendant group until it is heard.

 

[missthe727]

I would have to agree that there is more solidarity now among the flight attendants at usairways east than ever. We are showing the union reps and the company that we have a voice and we will not accept what we seen thus far coming out of these negotiations- JNC / local reps start listening and stop insulting our intelligence - we will not vote for this merged agreement if it continues to contain concessions/this reserve language and many many flight attendants of all seniority levels are on board with voting no. We are standing together, the numbers are growing, our voice will get louder and there will be no merged flight attendant group until it is heard.

It brings back memories of bright green CHAOS t-shirts and the rally held in PIT at West Hills Shopping Ctr with F/As attending over 2000+ strong. That was one great night of solidarity...ok go ahead and say it, PIT is gone------- but we always voted NO on every contract !

 

[Travelpro72]

After two trips through BK and all of the concessions we have had shoved down our throats I don't think there are many f/as's that care what management thinks. Truly? I see the membership growing in solidarity more and more everyday minus a few twits out there. It doesn't matter what Mike thinks nor does it matter what management thinks. This t/a WILL most likely get voted down due to the JNC not listening. It's that simple really. Oh and as to what "I" am doing or others, whaterver! The JNC and their "old world thinking" will be the cause of what happens, certainly not what Debbie Downer says here on aviation. What a moron. 🙄

 

[VAflyGal]

SMH
It's so clear who some people are around here with their scare tactics and insults.
Here's an idea - why don't we work on solving the problems here instead of acting like a pouty kindergarten child who left his bippy in the sand box.
Yes, let's stay on topic like the rules say instead of attacking another member, Aztec Cool Breeze....
Mods???

 

[cactusgirl]

Not to hijack the thread, but thought some might find this interesting.

CO TA is out. Just for some light bed time reading.

CO TA highlights

 

[AztecMystic]

Solving problems? here is an idea! How about showing support to the JNC officials that were elected, that is solving a HUGE problem with this airline. Whether or not you agree these people were voted into their postions by the majority. Be United and support each other and our Union officials. We are hardly united, yes pass around the petition to recall MF and CA, or the petition about staying with the pilots. Even worse, start spreading lies and propaganda about a TA that hasnt even been presented to the workforce. You really want to solve a problem, support our UNION. FACT, not everyone is going to be happy with what is negotiated and if you dont get what you want then move on! There are almost 6000 flight attendants at US AIRWAYS do you think for a moment any single contract in the history of negotable contracts will make THIS entire workforce happy? Be grateful we have hard working members working and volunteering to take care of union memebers and every time you sling mud and minimize our JNC efforts you errode our leadership and the councils. Perhaps attending the one of the roadshows, taking notes and having first hand information rather than.. " I heard on my Lisbon flight from a flight attendant who knows someone in the union who said we are...." This forum serves a purpose with sharing ideas and frustrations and coming to a resolution. It seem to me it has become the victimized US AIRWAYS flight attendant forum. And yes, perhaps I made a generalization when I said "you" to travelpro, but that was more of a reference to the "bitter" workforce as a whole. There was a strory I heard when I first started in the 90s. Carl Ichan was dealing with striking flight attendants when he was at TWA. The story goes, someone asked him how he was going to deal with the labor problem (striking flight attendants). He took this person to window of his office and pointed down to the street and pointed out random people and said, that person is a flight attendant, as that person and that person. We all know how that turned out over there. When I say we are replacable, we are, Im not saying that to invoke fear but point out a fact, plain and simple. Im not saying roll over and play dead, however those legacy airline days are loooooog gone with pensions, 6 flight attendants on an A321, A scale B scale as well as the "profesional" aspect. Profesional? Im lucky if is see a US AIRWAYS flight attendant not making up their own appearance guidlines and uniform standards, doing ALL suggested services, and even more importantly actually smiling. If you are here because you love this job, love to travel, appreciate the flexabilty and being an absentee employee than great, if you are here to get rich than move right along. One more question do you think in a MILLION years the traveling public with support any work action by US AIRWAYS flight attendants? LOL, Most people would see it as a blessing if we simply disappeared. I love this job, my co-workers but I dont have any lofty expectations that things will EVER be what they were.

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

Maybe the AFA needs to talk to the IAM once again the IAM has delivered for CO's FAs

 

[cactusgirl]

Maybe the AFA needs to talk to the IAM once again the IAM has delivered for CO's FAs

No kidding. A no furlough clause and all.

 

[Travelpro72]

WOW, talk about out to lunch. Well, at least I know that most are coming together to DEMAND what is theirs when it comes to better contract language. NOBODY is backing down and taking your (aztecca's) fear and intimidation. You may call it reality but it's pumping fear into people and supporting the JNC in telling the membership that, "This is all your worth", "be thankful you got what's been negotiated". I find it amazing how "OhReally" and "AztecMystic" just appear out of nowhere. Hmmm now if only we knew where Mike and Carol were. Oh wait that pesky "union closing" wife too. NIGHT! 🙄