I so agree with you. For a while, I had a part time job at a school in one of the wealthiest communities in the USA. Those teachers paid twice as much as me per month for med benefits.....and it was Keiser which is a joke...............My friends there could not believe what I paid monthly and the amount of days I worked.................the bottom line, some things we have are not that bad compared to the rest of the working world. Just my opinion.
AFA labor discussion (Work related)
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flybynite
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So I guess you wouldn't want the reserves to have med. insurance?
songbirdstew
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Please tell me why she sould NOT be collecting full benefits ? She's flying her 40 hours and according to the contract she is entitled to be.
I only fly 40 because I decided 6 years ago to go to school get a nursing degree and another job on the side. I fly my 40 hours and go home to my other job at a hospital too. However I do not use the benefits here at US because believe it or not, the bennies at my husband job are better than here at US AND at the hospital where I work. HOWEVER, if I needed those benefits, I have every right to them only flying 40 as you do flying your 80+. It's contractual my friend and those who fly 40 pay dues just like you do. Until it is changed in the contract we SHOULD BE COLLECTING what we can.
In addition, I used to think the way that you do ~~ that people on the 50 hour option (when we had it) should be considered part time and pay more for benefits. However, keep in mind that in the future, you yourself may want to take advantage of the only flying 40 option and you would most likely wish the full benefits were there for you too.
songbirdstew
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Excellent point !! Under the RSV screen #18 on December 31, 2010 there are 7 1/2 pages of RSVS in the 40 hour bucket or less.....now most did fly more because they picked up ETB time. However there are those that just fly the minimum and collect guarantee. Let's take away their benefits too and add to the crappy life they already have with this RSV system !!!
Oh...I'm sorry TwiceBaked you said anyone that flies UNDER 70 hours......that adds in a ton more people !
Onestep2flt
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Listen, I am not as articulate as some posters at getting my points across. I am more John Wayne cavalier when it comes to these things. You guys have very well though out, well researched speeches and it makes for great discussion. I ride into town with guns blazing and realize that I was wrong after the dust settles. Some of it comes from a lack of understanding of the fine print, and some comes from like you having to trust the people I get my info from. So everyone forgive me when I try to be nit picky about the intricacies of the negotiation process. I am merely trying to spark an intelligent debate and also get Flight Attendants to take the time to read things for yourself. Sometimes my info comes from others as I would otherwise not have such knowledge. Don't just take someone Else's word, read and ask questions.
The term PROFESSIONAL NEGOTIATOR I think is indeed battered when it comes to your negotiations. I don't know the level of qualifications of your current staff negotiator. I do want to point out that the term PROFESSIONAL in the context of your negotiations just means they are paid!!! Just a quick look at section VI of your Constitution spells out the make up of your negotiating team. Interesting to note there is only mention of ONE MEC president no matter your airline size on the negotiating team. There is a provision to petition the international president for extra member to the committee but still only ONE MEC president. In regard to the STAFF negotiator, it states: a. A pool of Staff Negotiators shall be maintained by the International Office. This pool also may include, but not be limited to: Labor Relations Associates, active flight attendants with negotiating experience (former Negotiating Committee members),Assistants to the International President if qualified , OR AFA Attorney. You see, Nowhere in there is a need for a PROFESSIONAL NEGOTIATOR. Just because you hold an office within the union does NOT make you a professional negotiator. Even if it is an attorney does not mean that this is there area of expertise as an attorney! Don't get me wrong, if they were able to pass the bar exam they have some level of intelligence for the law, but this certainly doe not automatically qualify you to be a PROFESSIONAL NEGOTIATOR. By the way, I think since you have two MEC presidents you should have two staff negotiators. Again, we see a pattern of not following your constitutional protocols.
PROFESSIONAL NEGOTIATORS should not be taking direction from the committee. They should be leading the negotiations and the committee should be taking directions from them. You folks need a true PROFESSIONAL NEGOTIATOR (LABOR/CONTRACT attorney) that actually specialized in this the entire time during their schooling. I would not want to get brain surgery from a Pediatrician, so why negotiate a contract with a STAFF ATTORNEY (or not) and a couple of flight attendants. I have no idea as to the education of your staff negotiator, but I think it is safe to say you folks need more help than what you are getting.
I think ignoring all these details in your Constitution has put you guys in a real predicament. You are setting a precedent that will eventually come back and bite you. It has been five years and you are no better off than you were then. It has been told by your management that a merger will be a part of your future. You guys might not even complete this one before that happens. If you can't follow simple procedures now what will happen when the next party starts? I just hope you do not set yourselves up for an ugly internal battle reminiscent of another group at US Airways.
One~
Your just fine in the way you write and get your point across. We agree more on issues that what you may think.
As far as the qualifications of Joe Burns. He's an attorney...a labor attorney who specializes in negotiating labor contract with an indepth knowledge of the Railway Labor Act.
Deb
This is not about reserves. Whether they fly or not, they are still on duty to the company 19 days a month.
I remember the 25-hour Piedmont princess
That was a sweet deal
flybynite
Veteran
Please keep in mind the company's proposal now as it stands, reduces us all to 80% and raises our costs. I had better coverage in the 80's.
If the company wants to reduce costs, they should do so by eliminating bonuses to the jackasses sitting in an office, texting their boyfriend, while I'm getting the planes off the gate on time.!
If the company wants to reduce costs, they should do so by eliminating bonuses to the jackasses sitting in an office, texting their boyfriend, while I'm getting the planes off the gate on time.!
galley princess
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What we need are more people like Songbirdstew, not less.
Two bankruptcies changed the rules at US. Only a fool ignored the very real possibility that US would go under. Some F/As, pilots, mechanics etc. hedged their bets. Acquiring new qualifications and keeping them honed is a GOOD thing and has consequences in the negotiating process. People like Songbirdstew give F/As leverage. We do not need F/As that live and die over this job, because what you get is the type of contract we have now.
Working within the system and enjoying the benefits of the system is not a bad thing, it is every F/a's right. It is about choices and if a F/A makes a choice to only be an F/A and fly their butt off, great so be it, but if that is not their choice and they prefer to control their destiny a different way, that is useful as well.
Divisive reasoning is just that, divisive. The question is not about who should be able to do what, it's about getting a decent contract in place so every f/a has choices, not just the senior and not just blockholders, and to do it without gutting the benefits that the junior would like to enjoy as well. This contract, if it ever comes to be, is about GAIN, not loss, and particularly not loss of benefits/ contractual protections.
In the final analysis what is going to be necessary is to allow this ridiculous travesty of a tentative to play out and then vote it down. There's no getting to a re-do any other way. US is not going to re-open closed sections in this process. One could argue that the easiest thing would be for AFA to say, okay, let's put your insulting pay proposal out there. US f/as vote it down and then we get other negotiators---with professional negotiators in and start over by re-opening the scheduling and reserve sections, which is what is required.
How else are we are going to get what US f/as really want?
Two bankruptcies changed the rules at US. Only a fool ignored the very real possibility that US would go under. Some F/As, pilots, mechanics etc. hedged their bets. Acquiring new qualifications and keeping them honed is a GOOD thing and has consequences in the negotiating process. People like Songbirdstew give F/As leverage. We do not need F/As that live and die over this job, because what you get is the type of contract we have now.
Working within the system and enjoying the benefits of the system is not a bad thing, it is every F/a's right. It is about choices and if a F/A makes a choice to only be an F/A and fly their butt off, great so be it, but if that is not their choice and they prefer to control their destiny a different way, that is useful as well.
Divisive reasoning is just that, divisive. The question is not about who should be able to do what, it's about getting a decent contract in place so every f/a has choices, not just the senior and not just blockholders, and to do it without gutting the benefits that the junior would like to enjoy as well. This contract, if it ever comes to be, is about GAIN, not loss, and particularly not loss of benefits/ contractual protections.
In the final analysis what is going to be necessary is to allow this ridiculous travesty of a tentative to play out and then vote it down. There's no getting to a re-do any other way. US is not going to re-open closed sections in this process. One could argue that the easiest thing would be for AFA to say, okay, let's put your insulting pay proposal out there. US f/as vote it down and then we get other negotiators---with professional negotiators in and start over by re-opening the scheduling and reserve sections, which is what is required.
How else are we are going to get what US f/as really want?
USCREW
Veteran
Dontcha love it? hahahaha
In March and hopefully April too, I will take the VPLOA if it reaches my seniority. Then, I will be flying ZERO and retaining full benefits (if I was taking them). 😛
SongBird, you and I worked our butts off to have this type of option. It did not fall out of the sky and land in our laps. No school said to you, "SongBirdStew, you look like a nice girl, here, take this degree from our esteemed university so that you may land that plum job at that trauma center, okay"? Then, besides working your full time hospital job and keeping up with all CEUs and certifications, you may work an extra measly 40 hours at that airline for the pure pleasure of pissing off reserves. Of course, we are ripping off the company with taking advantage of this contractual benefit. No matter that we got nothing more in terms of benefits when working the 105 option or the 6-trip option. Was there a discount on my benefits during those years? Ummm, no.
Onestep2flt
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Yes folks, this should not be turning into a blockholder/reserve standoff. Every one of you have unique and different stories to tell as to why you are a Flight Attendant. Your contract does afford some great flexibilities and some take full advantage of this. There should be no anguish over this fact. We have already discussed the fact that there is need for more attention to ALL Flight Attendants in the negotiations process. Finger pointing at each other does not fix any inequity that may be present.
If you have not taken notice the last two pages of discussion have included someone from your JNC. Now may be an opportunity for you to give examples of what areas of the contract needs more attention. Maybe sight specific examples. Since this is a public forum I am sure they may not respond with any answers you want to hear, but you can certainly show them how your current contract affects you in a negative or positive way.
From my observer post here my big concern goes all the way back to the beginning of the merger. I have read your constitution and by laws and it would appear that they are not being followed in regard to your merger policy. I feel that a thorough explanation should have been given to you from the very beginning as to why this is the case. There are specific procedures laid out as to the makeup of the negotiating committee and also merging of the MEC. Why are they not following procedure? What specific language in the constitution gives the authority to deviate from these procedures? I think until these questions are answered you should be Leary of the whole process. It has been promised here that it will be looked into so maybe you will get some answers on those questions. Time will tell. You have a new international president so it is a great time to put them on notice that some communication needs to be coming from that office. As I said before, there may be legitimate reason for not following these procedures. I question what and by whom give this authority.
No matter what you have a mess that needs cleaning up. Just be careful in pointing fingers at each other during this critical time. It is a time waster for sure. Focus on the folks that seem to be ignoring you at this time. That would be your leadership!
Travelpro72
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Change is happening. When Mike Flores no longer has support from PHL Local 70 he will have a HUGE thorn in his side and a leg from his table knocked out from under him. Crossing fingers that we see Cathy win in CLT Mike will totally be screwed. Local 70 officers WILL be recalled due to a successfull collection of signatures so take it from there. 😉
songbirdstew
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Thank you Princess, there are actually a lot of people like me that were forced to get 2nd jobs and now only fly 40. AND....... just as an FYI to those whose business it really isn't, when I drop to 40 hours I give all my trips to reserves that I know and if no one wnats them I put them on the trade board no strings attached. Last month I had some B/H text me at 6am asking me to take a sweet 2 day off the board and give it to them. I said no because people had already clicked on it and were hoping for that trip.
