AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[ggiby]

I was at an airport when a flight canceled for fumes, the crew was laughing about screwing the company as they left the airport. Not saying all situations are like that, but the only one I have personal knowledge of was absolutely a made up issue.

Ok.... Not to pick your post apart... but..... here are my questions to you...""""".I was at an airport when a flight canceled for fumes, the crew was laughing about screwing the company as they left the airport. Not saying all situations are like that, but the only one I have personal knowledge of was absolutely a made up issue."""""

"I was at the airport when a flight canceled for fumes" So you were at the airport when a filth cancelled for fumes..... I guess it was not your flight right? Are you a remember? Or Ground staff? If Ground staff what is your job? Now you say the crew was laughing about screwing the company as they left the airport.... Where were you when you heard this? Were they talking to you? Or were you just an earshot away.... If they really were joking about screwing the company... how do you know they were talking about fume issues? I will admit.... I have never been involved in an issue dealing with fumes... I hope I never am. BUT... a flight does not cancel just because a crew makes something up. There is a protocol that takes place.... first off if something is written up, a mechanic is then called. Crew just cant say, oh i see a problem.... we are all out of here.... see you! When a mechanic is called to look at an issue he/she will confirm the issue. If there is a problem, he/she then works to fix the problem. Entries ie paperwork is then done for faa purposes into a logbook. If the problem is fixed the mechanic then signs off the paperwork and logs entries into the logbook, and sends the a/c on its merry way.... crew and all. If the problem is not fixed, The company then is called... at that point a new a/c is found to replace the a/c that is grounded. If that does not happen the crew is then told where to go at the discretion of the company. They can't just leave. ...... I hope I have cleared up a few issues about how this process would work... The crew does not just walk away and laugh. They at some point have to work what they were scheduled to do, or worse something else that they did not originally have to do. Plus, when they are on the ground and not flying, they are not getting paid..... period..... I don't believe your post at all.

 

[Travelpro72]

The air quality issue is a serious problem and I don't see ANY crew members laughing when they have nerve damage from it and upper respiratory issues because of it. I can't believe that someone would say that this is happening because of contract talks. Who wants to breathe in that crap and go to a hospital with damage to their body that is quite possibly permanent? Passengers have been affected by this right along with employees. It's happening more and more but has nothing to do with screwing the company as it does with the way the aircraft are maintained and by whom. Moving along.

 

[Onestep2flt]

I was at an airport when a flight canceled for fumes, the crew was laughing about screwing the company as they left the airport. Not saying all situations are like that, but the only one I have personal knowledge of was absolutely a made up issue.

So you followed a crew out of the airport and heard their whole conversation? Sounds like someone could be taking something out of context. Although you could have heard a crew possibly saying what you allege, were you on the aircraft in question when the conversation most likely began? Unless you were it would be awfully difficult for you to come to conclusion that you did without all the particulars of the story. This is how all these stories that nobody else can confirm take place around here.Then story takes on a life all its own. We here are all guilty of this. There are several rumors on this board that although sound very plausible we just don't have key elements of the story to convict! Does not mean it is not true of course. What I am saying is we must be very careful in what we choose to say before it becomes just another rumor.

The original poster for what ever their motives seems to be trying to cast doubt on something that would appear to have documentation to back it up. That is why I brought up the fact the your company just this month put out this:

http://usairwaysmag....s/safety_first/

With this story it should be documented and your company should have trend monitoring data that should tell the true story. There seems to be enough evidence of a very real issue that they should be having an external audit from an independent source other than US management. There was just a story in the USA Today recently about airline safety. One of the things mentioned was the toxic fume/smoke issues complete with pictures! So, this appears to be a real problem with real consequences. I wish I could find the story, perhaps someone with better forensic skills can dig it up. Anyway, it was discussing how the FAA has bans on certain airlines entering the USA as they don't meet their safety standards. I found the story amusing as some of the countries airlines involved are the very one's doing maintenance on the carriers in the US. That is a story for another thread though.

I suppose there could be some copycats that either want attention or want to cause problems for your company. I think that possibility is very slim though. There would have to be some very large conspiracy. As stated before there have been passengers sickened with these events. I take issue at the original poster for the Baghdad Bob commentary. Then, in the same breath looking as though they are showing sympathy for any crews affected. You must read the post for yourself though. Look at it very carefully. Well, here it is:

Have we ever looked inward at ourselves? At any rate hopefully if there were any "health" issues with the above mentioned they will be fine and recover. My best to them!

They spent there whole post saying it is mostly a made up story and that you should not blame poor Doug for this. After that comes the apparent sympathy statement. It might just be me, but if I read the quoted above correctly, This sure seems to be taking one last jab at your crews. Why are we putting the word health in quotes? Seems to be saying there is nothing going on with anyones health so go back to work now. I don't know, maybe I am the one taking it out of context. Perhaps they would like to clear this up.

I certainly hope this is not the same thoughts as any of your executives! I don't think anyone cares where the blame lays, only that the problem is fixed. That is one of the problems with corporations today though. They forgot with all those bonus checks that the buck stops at their door. They are indeed the ones that need make sure the problem is fixed!! This is not just at the airlines.

 

[VAflyGal]

Regarding the cabin fumes, this isn't an issue isolated to US Airways and it is in fact a real problem. The chemicals that one inhales can be traced by a blood test, so Fliboy Kool Aid drinker, I hope you never have to experience a cabin air incident as it will likely further affect your logic and reasoning skills.
Give me a break.

Here's the most notorious incident at US: http://www.wcnc.com/home/Plane-with-sick-passengers-back-in-the-air-90030422.html

Here's another article: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/225864-U-S-Airways-Flight-Attendant-Says-Toxic-Airplane-Cabin-Air-Sickening-Flight-Crews

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/04/17/325243/cabin-air-chemicals-far-more-toxic-than-previously-believed-says.html

And it happens in the UK too, so SHUT IT with your contract excuse. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/141692.php

 

[VAflyGal]

HERE: http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/gtoxicair/flash.htm

HERE: http://www.toxiccabinair.com/

HERE: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2002/2002-05-09-cabin-air.htm

Now what do you think?

 

[VAflyGal]

Want more? HERE: http://www.naturalnews.com/025990_toxic_airplane_cabin_air.html

HERE: http://www.avantormaterials.com/SearchDocuments/usa/English/T5161_msds_us_Default.pdf?terms=Tricresyl%20Phosphate

NEXT....

 

[missthe727]

wasn't there a CLT F/A who recently passed away from respiratory complications that AFA is attributing her death to exposure in the cabin to this toxic air??

 

[Travelpro72]

You are correct.

 

[cynic]

So you followed a crew out of the airport and heard their whole conversation? Sounds like someone could be taking something out of context. Although you could have heard a crew possibly saying what you allege, were you on the aircraft in question when the conversation most likely began? Unless you were it would be awfully difficult for you to come to conclusion that you did without all the particulars of the story. This is how all these stories that nobody else can confirm take place around here.Then story takes on a life all its own. We here are all guilty of this. There are several rumors on this board that although sound very plausible we just don't have key elements of the story to convict! Does not mean it is not true of course. What I am saying is we must be very careful in what we choose to say before it becomes just another rumor.

I was on my way out and only a few paces behind them as they joked about it. I could give plenty of elements to convict, but I don't want the company contacting me. I'm not saying that every situation is like this, but at least one has been made up. Given that, it's not unreasonable to suspect that others are as well.

 

[john john]

I was on my way out and only a few paces behind them as they joked about it. I could give plenty of elements to convict, but I don't want the company contacting me. I'm not saying that every situation is like this, but at least one has been made up. Given that, it's not unreasonable to suspect that others are as well.

Your personal knowledge is not to convincing

 

[Onestep2flt]

I was on my way out and only a few paces behind them as they joked about it. I could give plenty of elements to convict, but I don't want the company contacting me. I'm not saying that every situation is like this, but at least one has been made up. Given that, it's not unreasonable to suspect that others are as well.

You seem sincere in what you believe was said, so I won't say it did not happen. I was not there so I don't know. However, unless you were there from beginning to end it is still impossible for us to put it into context.

What is clear is that the original poster was doing a drive by and their motivation seems to be to convince us that none of these events were real at all and they were all faked due to a contractual dispute. I think there is plenty of evidence that these events are very real. Don't need to wander to far as there are more than a couple examples above that have links to actual events. I liken the original post to a Baghdad Bob moment!

 

[Furloughd4now]

Regarding the cabin fumes, this isn't an issue isolated to US Airways and it is in fact a real problem. The chemicals that one inhales can be traced by a blood test, so Fliboy Kool Aid drinker, I hope you never have to experience a cabin air incident as it will likely further affect your logic and reasoning skills.
Give me a break.

Here's the most notorious incident at US: http://www.wcnc.com/home/Plane-with-sick-passengers-back-in-the-air-90030422.html

Here's another article: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/225864-U-S-Airways-Flight-Attendant-Says-Toxic-Airplane-Cabin-Air-Sickening-Flight-Crews

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/04/17/325243/cabin-air-chemicals-far-more-toxic-than-previously-believed-says.html

And it happens in the UK too, so SHUT IT with your contract excuse. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/141692.php

Actually there is NO blood Test to confirm! There IS a Reaseach Dr. in WA that is conducting research in an attempt to come up with a conclusive test.

Trust me because I was exposed on a 319 several months ago. I was out of work for a few weeks, went to the company "Dr." took all kinds of tests. They could not come up with anything, denied my WC claim and I could have taken a Medical on my own dime or return to work. I went to my own Dr. who, with his and my research concurred that there really isn't anything to "test for". Although I wasn't exposed as long as the crewmembers on 251, it was long enough for me (and the rest of my crew), as of today to suffer ramifications from it. Trust me honey I am NOT suffering from headaches, ear aches, forgetting who I am, where I am, or where I was going because of a contract dispute!

Out of the crewmembers from 251. One passed, the rest are still on medical leaves. Pilots have lost their licenses.

Until they come up with a test to PROVE this, there really is no recourse for the employee who was exposed.

 

[galley princess]

THIS is the kind of stuff I wish AFA, APFA, and the pilots' unions would spend more money on.

It isn't going to come from any airline and apparently not the NTSB or the FAA.

This could be any of us. All you have to be is unlucky.

(Actually, I think we've already fufilled that requirement vis a vis our choice of carrier umpteen years ago.)

I sure hope that a consumer's rights group gets interested. We're not alone on those planes.

Actually there is NO blood Test to confirm! There IS a Reaseach Dr. in WA that is conducting research in an attempt to come up with a conclusive test.

Trust me because I was exposed on a 319 several months ago. I was out of work for a few weeks, went to the company "Dr." took all kinds of tests. They could not come up with anything, denied my WC claim and I could have taken a Medical on my own dime or return to work. I went to my own Dr. who, with his and my research concurred that there really isn't anything to "test for". Although I wasn't exposed as long as the crewmembers on 251, it was long enough for me (and the rest of my crew), as of today to suffer ramifications from it. Trust me honey I am NOT suffering from headaches, ear aches, forgetting who I am, where I am, or where I was going because of a contract dispute!

Out of the crewmembers from 251. One passed, the rest are still on medical leaves. Pilots have lost their licenses.

Until they come up with a test to PROVE this, there really is no recourse for the employee who was exposed.

 

[missthe727]

THIS is the kind of stuff I wish AFA, APFA, and the pilots' unions would spend more money on.

It isn't going to come from any airline and apparently not the NTSB or the FAA.

This could be any of us. All you have to be is unlucky.

(Actually, I think we've already fufilled that requirement vis a vis our choice of carrier umpteen years ago.)

I sure hope that a consumer's rights group gets interested. We're not alone on those planes.

Did you see the latest AFA E-line. There are actually going to be meetings in CLT and PHL regarding this topic in August....maybe finally something will be done.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Did you see the latest AFA E-line. There are actually going to be meetings in CLT and PHL regarding this topic in August....maybe finally something will be done.

Just A Reminder to the AFA, courtesy of Hollywood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwEMIvDEFy4

So what really has changed from 1920 until now?