Fleet Service apathy

[nascarjoe]

We would need to start an organizational drive to get enough cards signed to support a 50% interest in a change from TWU to the IAM! This would be 50% of the combined F/S group from both carriers showing interest in such a change.

Personally... I'm for keeping the IAM and the New Direction!

Sounds like a plan.......I like it!!!

 

[saywhat]

SEC. 1003. BARGAINING REPRESENTATIVE CERTIFICATION.
Section 2 of the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 152) is amended
by adding at the end the following:
‘‘Twelfth. Showing of interest for representation elections. The
Mediation Board, upon receipt of an application requesting that an
organization or individual be certified as the representative of any
craft or class of employees, shall not direct an election or use any
other method to determine who shall be the representative of such
craft or class unless the Mediation Board determines that the application
is supported by a showing of interest from not less than 50
percent of the employees in the craft or class.’’.


Not clear enough, doing more research.

 

[mike33]

SEC. 1003. BARGAINING REPRESENTATIVE CERTIFICATION.
Section 2 of the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 152) is amended
by adding at the end the following:
‘‘Twelfth. Showing of interest for representation elections. The
Mediation Board, upon receipt of an application requesting that an
organization or individual be certified as the representative of any
craft or class of employees, shall not direct an election or use any
other method to determine who shall be the representative of such
craft or class unless the Mediation Board determines that the application
is supported by a showing of interest from not less than 50
percent of the employees in the craft or class.’’.


Not clear enough, doing more research.

The TWU is very serious!
They are petitioning the court tomorrow to lock out certain creditors because the have evidence of coercion against the unions ....

http://www.amrcaseinfo.com/pdflib/2395_15463.pdf

http://www.amrcaseinfo.com/pdflib/2390_15463.pdf

Notice the date and time of the filing ( top right)
on the day of the announcement just after the market closed !

 

[roabilly]

SEC. 1003. BARGAINING REPRESENTATIVE CERTIFICATION.
Section 2 of the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 152) is amended
by adding at the end the following:
‘‘Twelfth. Showing of interest for representation elections. The
Mediation Board, upon receipt of an application requesting that an
organization or individual be certified as the representative of any
craft or class of employees, shall not direct an election or use any
other method to determine who shall be the representative of such
craft or class unless the Mediation Board determines that the application
is supported by a showing of interest from not less than 50
percent of the employees in the craft or class.’’.


Not clear enough, doing more research.

That's how far I got as well... just clarifying the 50% is all I could find.

 

[roabilly]

The TWU is very serious!
They are petitioning the court tomorrow to lock out certain creditors because the have evidence of coercion against the unions ....

http://www.amrcaseinfo.com/pdflib/2395_15463.pdf

http://www.amrcaseinfo.com/pdflib/2390_15463.pdf

Notice the date and time of the filing ( top right)
on the day of the announcement just after the market closed !

Very interesting… I have always said that these corporate bankruptcy proceedings were simply a “tool” and the laws were being abused to dilute Labor Agreements. After viewing these documents, it appears that the TWU is going to try to do something about it!

 

[mike33]

Very interesting… I have always said that these corporate bankruptcy proceedings were simply a “tool” and the laws were being abused to dilute Labor Agreements. After viewing these documents, it appears that the TWU is going to try to do something about it!

Notice the motion to shorten the exclusivity!
If granted then we may be hearing from DP very soon after regarding his plan and what was signed with the TWU. The signed agreement may even be part of the evidence presented and parts of the US plan. IMO

 

[ograc]

Notice the motion to shorten the exclusivity!
If granted then we may be hearing from DP very soon after regarding his plan and what was signed with the TWU. The signed agreement may even be part of the evidence presented and parts of the US plan. IMO

It's going to get very interesting in the coming weeks.

 

[saywhat]

Notice the motion to shorten the exclusivity!
If granted then we may be hearing from DP very soon after regarding his plan and what was signed with the TWU. The signed agreement may even be part of the evidence presented and parts of the US plan. IMO

I get a sneaky feeling the US negotiating committee gets this supposed TA very soon with the stipulations I posted yesterday.

 

[ograc]

I get a sneaky feeling the US negotiating committee gets this supposed TA very soon with the stipulations I posted yesterday.

saywhat,
Speculation at best but that could very well be. Then again, the game plan could be to simply keep the labor groups on the US side, completely in the dark, until he sees if the other players in the restructuring process at AA take the bait. This senario, likewise, is speculation. The next contract negotiations between US and Fleet, along with the other groups, may shed some light on what their hidden agenda and strategy will be as it pertains to the US side of this proposed merger. Speaking for myself, regarding how the US Fleet members are affected with this secretive plan, I'm not getting a warm fuzzy feeling.
ograc

 

[roabilly]

There is one thing that should be addressed here as we progress toward a possible representation change and/or election. Member dissatisfaction is rampant among a great deal of the employee groups in this industry.

Negative campaign tactics like that of Occupy attempt to paint the Union Leadership and the Union itself as the enemy. Just look at what has happened with the Pilots…they changed their entire union out of frustration, now they face getting absorbed by another union (APA) rendering all of those efforts for naught, without so much as a pay raise in 7 years!

Everyone needs to realize that there are limitations to what ANY union can do at any particular time. As we have covered for weeks now in this forum… Regulations, Laws, and Arbitration Scheduling, ALL serve to limit resolving issues in a timely manner. The companies are all well aware of this, and they often prolong everything with legal wrangling to create dissention within the rank and file. This tactic causes us to question our own union leadership, thus dividing the group!

It’s the oldest trick in the book of strategy… it’s called… “Divide and Conquer”. Don’t fall victim to these tactics… stay together and support your leadership!

Just to illustrate an example of dissention within a Union… I am posting a screenshot of the TWU poll in the AA thread. As you can see they too are frustrated, and are ready for change. The problem is… changing things will not make the RLA go away… it will not make industry consolidation go away, nor will it make any of the restrictions we face legally at every turn go away!

I know the image is small... but the poll suggests that over 70% of AA fleet wants to leave the TWU!
(If you single left click on it... it will enlarge) ... or click here for the link.

 

[freedom]

Long time, Freedom... chatters were wondering if I eliminated one of my several names. 😛h34r:

Back to the topic at hand... there is more "fairness" than simple Date of Hire (just ask the pilots on their thread), and what is "fair" is often times a matter of opinion. For example, if there is a merger, then there will be almost certainly, "right sizing" the combined airline through the elimination of hubs and downsizing stations, and depending upon the CBA in place "bump and flush" might be perfectly legal for displaced agents. Is that "fair" as it is based upon date of hire? Would "fairness" consider some form of fences? Would "fairness" consider some relative seniority? Maybe even "fairness" of career expectations of a failed company versus a viable company?

So Considers Jester.

eh i can't really keep up anymore these days , what with the apathy thread and me being apathic and all ...

you make some valid points and i agree with you about the fences , at least until the blood letting has subsided ..

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

I'm fairly certain the poll you linked was on a mechanic dominated thread.They are the most vocal in their desire to oust the TWU in favor of a craft union by and for maintenance technicians.

As for the rest of Fleet Service at AA,it suffers from the same apathy I see being bemoaned here.

 

[wings396]

Purely speculation here but I keep seeing on various threads that the agreeements with the 3 AA Unions call for the TWU to keep ramp and the IAM to keep MTC. I am wondering if the agreement stipulates no election and fold the respective members into their new Unions. I further speculate that the ramp,
mtc and fa's will be given the same proposal as given to AA in the near future with the same said stipulations. The main reason I believe this is that these contracts negotiated by DP and AA are supposedly going to go in effect soon after the merger.

I was thinking along the same lines. In order for the TWU to endorse Parkers plan, there had to be something in it for them. They knew that there was in inherited risk of them losing members to the IAM with a merger, and they stand to lose thousands with AA's standalone plan as well. Did they make a behind the scenes deal with Doug and the IAM that gives the IAM the combined MTC group, and the TWU all of the Fleet group? I assume that we will find out as time goes on. With this plan they are able to both keep their membership headcounts the same, so this neutral situation is really a win-win for both unions...

 

[roabilly]

Purely speculation here but I keep seeing on various threads that the agreeements with the 3 AA Unions call for the TWU to keep ramp and the IAM to keep MTC. I am wondering if the agreement stipulates no election and fold the respective members into their new Unions. I further speculate that the ramp,
mtc and fa's will be given the same proposal as given to AA in the near future with the same said stipulations. The main reason I believe this is that these contracts negotiated by DP and AA are supposedly going to go in effect soon after the merger.

This is a very plausible scenario, I have seen it referenced a few times in other threads. The question would be is the IAM aware of this at the highest level yet? Will it be presented this week at negotiations?

Does the FAA re authorization act legislation make this decision easier to pallet since we would more than likely become TWU anyway?

Many unanswered questions… we need to think long and hard before we act…

 

[Tim Nelson]

I get a sneaky feeling the US negotiating committee gets this supposed TA very soon with the stipulations I posted yesterday.

The agreement with the AA unions is supposedly a 5% immediate raise, and 3% raises for the next two years, then some sorta pay scale set up against Delta and UA. Sounds like a sorta pay parity thing unfolding. That would put the ramp base pay at about $22 for AA which would be a bankrupt agreement and a true insult to any US airways employee. This was the talk in the AA breakroom in ORD yesterday that I attended but I will admit, it is breakroom talk but seemed to be validated by some shop stewards present. Time will tell. At any rate, although setting up a payscale similar to Delta's might work with a unionized Delta pilot group, setting it up with a non union pay scale at Delta is HUGELY risky and unacceptable. And FWIW: All after 3 years of botched talks, $22 is presently all that is on the table at UA for the New Direction. For fairness reasons, I think north of $24 for US AIRWAYS in imputed pay through 2011, and job/work guarantees would be a starting baseline for negotiations in 2012- , other improvements implied. It will be interesting to see if part of the TWU deal was to keep the 'sacredity seniority clause'. With the seniority problems that US AIRWAYS is dealing with in the Pilot talks, I would assume that management might have addressed this with the TWU or may be more willing to address this with the IAM. Time will tell. Let's face it, there is alot we don't know about this new union deal with the TWU or if their members will even be voting on it.

At any rate, other things you have said are not legally sound. US AIRWAYS management can not get involved in representational disputes so it can't bar any group from an election. Let's not jump to any conclusions as you do and let's discover what exactly US AIRWAYS promised. All we presently know is that they have signed on to retain the maintenance base in TUL for the MX at AA, and have promised to retain 1,200 additional rampers although I don't claim to know who or what represents these additional 1,200 rampers.

Unfortunately, at this time, the IAM 141 is the only group on the US AIRWAYS property that has 'continual lay offs' and increasing of contracting out of your work. We must hold a FIRM line and make sure that our union doesn't go down the same path that it has went down at UA/CO merger that has buried the UA/CO members in transition talks with no raises in sight and loose definitions of 'work'. Remember, it is very important to watch the UA/CO merger unfold since it is about 3 years in front of this proposed one with AA/US.

In ANY CASE we have to guard against using a Bankrupt AA ramp contract as a bar in IAM talks. We should also look forward to an election but we would need about 3,000 cards from AA ramp servicemen to trigger it [that's possible and may be very likely]. I'm in ORD with about 2,000 AA rampers and I know most of the key guys, frequent their breakrooms always, and I think they are open to discovery. And if you were in the breakroom at AA you wouldn't have ran your mouth about any horse trading. I got NO INDICATION that the TWU is wanting to part ways with MX or Rampers and will MOST LIKELY want to be "All in". If the TWU did in fact protect the TUL maintenance base from closing, I seriously doubt the IAM would be in a position to horse trade and keep the higher paying MX. Time will tell but I will admit that "union horse trading' is something that these unions have done before [America West Fleet]. The IAM stands to lose 10,000 so although it may be reasonable for you to conclude that the IAM may want to horse trade, I would hope the matter could be settled with a representational election for workers to decide, and NO horse trading.

At any rate, all unions need to stick to their guns and not sign anything that isn't fair.

regards,