MERGER MANIA CONTINUES (MERGED TOPICS)

[USFlyer]

Won't happen with B6. AS doesn't want to sell, so the offer would have to be quite good. US can't afford AA.

Best chance (which in my mind is still slim) would be the new "Republic/Frontier/Midwest" (keeping the US Airways name) with an AA partnership/Oneworld membership.

As a side note, I still continue to think a NW-US merger would have been better than a NW-DL merger, but NW danced with DL first.

 

[Toothy Grin]

Hmmm.

There is some importance to this question. Our growth is flat so that isn't a good thing at all. Yet, investment wise our spread sheets look very good. We are a little over extended......... Nevertheless, "going it alone" as is often mentioned is at this point out of the question unless you are only managing the company on a month to month basis. How Parker or Kirby can say we'll be fine on our own and keep a straight face is amazing.

I'd still say that JetB is the best bet if we put in direct tv. Otherwise, the market and/or the next global catastrophe will dictate how and what methods airlines come together.

Perhaps a hostile takeover of one of the airlines op mentioned?

 

[mikey60]

We will not merge with anyone until our labor problems are cleared up.

 

[VegasGambler]

There are only 3 choices left:

1. American
2. JetBlue
3. Alaska

There is no turning back at this point. We need to put a purchase offer in on one of the above. What's your preference?????

Hawaiian Airlines - New Airbus A330 planes coming in now Expanding to Asia Austraila Korea etc

Wake up Tempe this is a great fit......we could fly from FRA to PHL to PHX to HNL to SYD

Talk about using widebodies the right way.....

 

[ebwgs]

We will not merge with anyone until our labor problems are cleared up.

This is probably the most common-sensical post in this thread.

 

[IberiaMAL]

Hawaiian Airlines - New Airbus A330 planes coming in now Expanding to Asia Austraila Korea etc

Wake up Tempe this is a great fit......we could fly from FRA to PHL to PHX to HNL to SYD

Talk about using widebodies the right way.....

I think widebodies would be better spent not flying PHL - PHX nor PHX - HNL.



as far as Widebody operations go, I'd rather see US Continue to develop:

CLT - Europe/South America
PHL - Europe/Asia/Middle East
PHX - Asia/Europe/South America



Besides, turning HNL into a US hub would be rather difficult as to connect the US system with Hawaiian's you would have to fly the 7 seas just to reach your final destination if you were coming from a US East city...



US should just buy it's own A330's, paint a swoosh on the fuselage, throw a flag on the stabilizer, start more long-haul flying and call it a day.


How does Hawaiian's cost structure compare to US's?

 

[nicky guy]

Alright, lets try this a different way.

Unless US agrees to be bought, whether whole, or in pieces, they're not going anywhere !



And I don't see...AA....UA...or DL trying to outdue each other, to get into the "crib" with them.
So, what is a company(in this case US) to do ?
Answer; they just "keep on keeping on".
They're operating out of a BRUTAL constrained(wx delays, everyday delays) hub(PHL), but through it all, to their credit, they Still have a Huge population area to draw from, and a Good over the Atlantic International route system. So Again I say, ...US is NOT going away any time soon.

Very Simple !

 

[VegasGambler]

I think widebodies would be better spent not flying PHL - PHX nor PHX - HNL.



as far as Widebody operations go, I'd rather see US Continue to develop:

CLT - Europe/South America
PHL - Europe/Asia/Middle East
PHX - Asia/Europe/South America



Besides, turning HNL into a US hub would be rather difficult as to connect the US system with Hawaiian's you would have to fly the 7 seas just to reach your final destination if you were coming from a US East city...


How does Hawaiian's cost structure compare to US's?

US should just buy it's own A330's, paint a swoosh on the fuselage, throw a flag on the stabilizer, start more long-haul flying and call it a day.

As you can see the destinations would connect nice to our west cost operations and give more feed to our domestic operations.

All groups have recently signed and agreed to contracts which gives HA the ability to expand its operations so the costs are now fixed for all groups for several years.

All aC on order now with HA are factored in with the growth plans for the airline when you buy the airline you buy the orders and slots...You wanna wait say 10 years or more.....this is a fast way to expand.....

I would rather see a merger with a smaller airline like HAL than a total screw fest with say AA...

 

[BoeingBoy]

US is NOT going away any time soon.

Now that you've gone form "too big to fail" to "not going away anytime soon" I agree.

Jim

 

[goodstew]

Won't happen with B6. AS doesn't want to sell, so the offer would have to be quite good. US can't afford AA.

Best chance (which in my mind is still slim) would be the new "Republic/Frontier/Midwest" (keeping the US Airways name) with an AA partnership/Oneworld membership.

As a side note, I still continue to think a NW-US merger would have been better than a NW-DL merger, but NW danced with DL first.

Actually, didn't US dance with DL first? DL just excused herself halfway through the song...

I would love to see B6/US and stay in Star,
Alaska and/or Hawaiian with a jump to OneWorld

Please, aren't there ANY sort of cheap 767 200/300s around? All this robbing peter to get paul's flight out is tiresome.

 

[AstroLounge]

Actually, didn't US dance with DL first? DL just excused herself halfway through the song...

I would love to see B6/US and stay in Star,
Alaska and/or Hawaiian with a jump to OneWorld

Please, aren't there ANY sort of cheap 767 200/300s around? All this robbing peter to get paul's flight out is tiresome.

My FIRST choice would be US/B6 and stay in STAR, followed by a US/HA combination Staying in STAR. "If" AA cannot get their labor agreements in order and ultimately files BK, I can easily see a US/AA tie-up and the eventual move to ONEWORLD. One of the stupidest things that could happen would be for US to merge with the likes of Republic..........they don't offer anything that US needs to Move forward. Spirit and it's FLL hub does have some merit though.

 

[jimntx]

"If" AA cannot get their labor agreements in order and ultimately files BK, I can easily see a US/AA tie-up and the eventual move to ONEWORLD.

'Scuse me? If AA can't get its act together on labor issues? We've only been in negotiations for 4 years with nothing settled. How long has US been at the issue of merged seniority lists with nothing settled? And, if that's ever settled in our lifetimes, you still have to begin the process of negotiating a joint contract. I think you still have seniority in the unsettled labor issues arena. (Not trying to be tacky. I just thought it a wonderful irony that anyone from US would comment on AA's labor issues.)

There ain't gonna be a BK at AMR. Execs would have to yield too much control to the BK court. Our Type A's wouldn't be able to stand that. And, thanks to you guys and the others who did go into BK, the laws have been changed such that past practices like gutting the union contracts with ease are no longer a slam dunk. Besides, I don't think the President would allow ANY major carrier--be it AA, US, WN, DL, UAUA--to go on strike while the economy is still shaky. If any of our unions was released into self-help, a PEB would be appointed so fast it would make your head swim.

 

[PullUp]

'Scuse me? If AA can't get its act together on labor issues? We've only been in negotiations for 4 years with nothing settled. How long has US been at the issue of merged seniority lists with nothing settled? And, if that's ever settled in our lifetimes, you still have to begin the process of negotiating a joint contract. I think you still have seniority in the unsettled labor issues arena. (Not trying to be tacky. I just thought it a wonderful irony that anyone from US would comment on AA's labor issues.)

There ain't gonna be a BK at AMR. Execs would have to yield too much control to the BK court. Our Type A's wouldn't be able to stand that. And, thanks to you guys and the others who did go into BK, the laws have been changed such that past practices like gutting the union contracts with ease are no longer a slam dunk. Besides, I don't think the President would allow ANY major carrier--be it AA, US, WN, DL, UAUA--to go on strike while the economy is still shaky. If any of our unions was released into self-help, a PEB would be appointed so fast it would make your head swim.

AA has smart lawyers and smart management. If there is a way to wash themselves through BK, they will do it. "Renegotiating" labor and vendor contracts and grounding unwanted airframes, as well as freezing/terminating pension plans has such a high $$ figure on it that managment cannot ignore.
Watch for stupid things starting to happen. Flights scheduled with big airplanes at odd hours going out empty; new ground vehicles showing up; remodeling projects that are not needed; and questionable financial deals like stock buybacks and raising dividends. When you see these signs, BK is not far away...
As far as a strike being allowed by a democrat in the WH? PEB? Really? The Dems don't want to lose the labor campaign finance dollars....you do the math. Remember, PrezO wants another term in a few years, and labor is a big part of the support for that. Yes, even conserative airline pilots. (This one will never ever vote for another republican as long as he lives).
Cheers.

 

[767jetz]

Besides, I don't think the President would allow ANY major carrier--be it AA, US, WN, DL, UAUA--to go on strike while the economy is still shaky. If any of our unions was released into self-help, a PEB would be appointed so fast it would make your head swim.

I agree with most of your post except the last part. Democratic Administrations are loathe to stop a legal labor action, regardless of the economy. They would lean heavily on the corporation for a quick settlement before using the PEB.

 

[767jetz]

If merger mania is really continuing (which I am not convinced of), then there is another possibility in the realm of total speculation. With the current consolidation trend among legacy carriers, it could be reasoned that there is only room for 3 major players in the new airline world. AA is the big question mark, since they could possibly continue on alone as the distant third player and strengthen their current market, or decide to grow through consolidation. Their partner in that case is not easy to guess since no one airline brings anything significant that AA needs.

Regardless, if US does not end up absorbed by one of the big three, then their existence as a legacy is at risk. So a transformation into a true Low Cost Carrier would be necessary, in keeping with the format of other LCC's like Southwest, Jet Blue, and Virgin America. That could mean shedding major international routes, the 767's and A330's, any major food or catering service, some of the hub and spoke routing, and concentrate on leisure markets like Florida and the Caribbean, as well as low cost trans-con service, and more point to point, using one or two fleets (ie. A320 & E190). And before anyone flames me for suggesting a divestiture of large aircraft and international service, remember that I am speculating one possible path, and a true LCC format with limited hub and spoke, and limited catering does not lend itself to Trans-Atlantic or Trans-Pacific markets. At least not currently. This can be accomplished through code share agreements.

So along this line of thinking, a merger with Jet Blue, Spirit, or even Virgin would make some sense.

As for AA bankruptcy, I think the main advantage if they did that would be to shed pensions, debt, and undesirable leases. It's not out of the question, and in that case it opens up an entirely different world of possibilities.