Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[snapthis]

Do make certain to present yourselves to the APA people in like manner. I've no doubt they'll be equally awestruck.

I'll bet I'm a lot closer to the 972, 817 and 214 area codes than you. This is not about my friends over at the APA.

Oh, and by the way, they are not impressed with your union either.

 

[EastUS1]

I'll bet I'm a lot closer to the 972, 817 and 214 area codes than you. This is not about my friends over at the APA.

Oh, and by the way, they are not impressed with your union either.

 
No matter. Make certain to properly impress them all, every bit as much as you've done with us here. I'd suggest formal wearing of "Integrity Matters" T-shirts for first meetings, a hearty cry of "This is sparta!" followed by some "dire wolf" videos, just for starters, after which, "you'se" can proceed on to further demonstrate your chronic immaturity by assailing their safety record. Who can possibly doubt that "you'se" will leave them dazzled and awestruck?...They might well even be left speechless. I can easily imagine that much. 😉

 

[snapthis]

What do any of those have to do with the safe flight of the traveling public (except maybe for the FFDO shooting)?
 
Does a tax evader or creep with a camera somehow make a pilot as dangerous as one, or two, who willfully show up drunk to fly an airliner?
 
Why not research and find all the east pilots who have run stop signs or exceeded the speed limit, and post that, too?

There is a pattern of shady, I'm above the law mentality. I've seen it in court, a jury saw it and found USAPA guilty of a DFR. Your reps were dishonest and misleading to our pilots at the road shows. I can go on and on. Let's see how Judge Silver sees it.

Why don't you back up with statistics your side's rookie comments about our pilot group? All I have to do is point at the score, much like the Cowboys, NY Giants game last night.

Dare to compare safety records?

PS. Don't drag your tail while you do that search. Max pitch up 7.5 degrees.

 

[EastUS1]

Why don't you back up with statistics your side's rookie comments about our pilot group? All I have to do is point at the score, much like the Cowboys, NY Giants game last night.

 Anyone can sit at a keyboard and type. Wager's always open. Feel free to personally impress me at your earliest convenience "spartan". 😉
 
The fact that you can actually assign equal notions of importance to football games and fatal disasters, as if both properly subject to "score", should tell even the most disinterested readers all they need to know about you at a glance.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Let's play legal expert.

Judge Silver will express her sympathy with the plaintiff's grievance and her strong frustration at being constrained by the law, the RLA and the 9th Circuit's previous ruling and interpretation. However, the only consolation she can offer to the west class is a seat with representation at the M/B table. She will also offer her Informal interpretation of how the concept of LUP must be balanced against the concept of WRR (wide range of reasonableness) and again conclude that the union did not act outside the bounds of WRR. She will rule that neither MOU para4 nor para10h meet the plaintiff's definition of a Trojan Horse and that both provisions, particularly 10h were adequately vetted.
Finally, the MOU, although a contract, is not the JCBA which will be pursued in accordance with the existing timeline following the effective date.

Court order - a 3way, no Nic and a SLI to be determined by M/B.

'84

 

[EastUS1]

Let's play legal expert.

Judge Silver will express her sympathy with the plaintiff's grievance and her strong frustration at being constrained by the law, the RLA and the 9th Circuit's previous ruling and interpretation. However, the only consolation she can offer to the west class is a seat with representation at the M/B table. She will also offer her Informal interpretation of how the concept of LUP must be balanced against the concept of WRR (wide range of reasonableness) and again conclude that the union did not act outside the bounds of WRR. She will rule that neither MOU para4 nor para10h meet the plaintiff's definition of a Trojan Horse and that both provisions, particularly 10h were adequately vetted.
Finally, the MOU, although a contract, is not the JCBA which will be pursued in accordance with the existing timeline following the effective date.

Court order - a 3way, no Nic and a SLI to be determined by M/B.

'84

 
That doesn't appear entirely unlikely from what we've seen so far, but would certainly open up a sizeable can of worms. It seems to me that a west seat would essentially construct an additional bargaining agent within an existing union, which by definition, is already the legally established bargaining agent. I'd imagine such an action to be easily subject to appeal. Oh well. We'll have to wait and see how it all plays out.
 
On the good side; with compensation set to rise to semi-respectable levels regardless...there's no real harm I can see to waiting out whatever legal proceedings that are needed to eventually finish this mess.

 

[Claxon]

Let's play legal expert.

Judge Silver will express her sympathy with the plaintiff's grievance and her strong frustration at being constrained by the law, the RLA and the 9th Circuit's previous ruling and interpretation. However, the only consolation she can offer to the west class is a seat with representation at the M/B table. She will also offer her Informal interpretation of how the concept of LUP must be balanced against the concept of WRR (wide range of reasonableness) and again conclude that the union did not act outside the bounds of WRR. She will rule that neither MOU para4 nor para10h meet the plaintiff's definition of a Trojan Horse and that both provisions, particularly 10h were adequately vetted.
Finally, the MOU, although a contract, is not the JCBA which will be pursued in accordance with the existing timeline following the effective date.

Court order - a 3way, no Nic and a SLI to be determined by M/B.

'84

If Judge Silver rules the way you predict, it will be an interesting case to follow during the appeals process.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Hey, I'm soliciting predictions - not prevarications 🙂

 

[Phoenix]

Court hearing today for final approval of exit plan...this guy is tweeting updates from the court room.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JasonWhitely

Should get final answer from bankruptcy judge by Wednesday at latest.

 

[Phoenix]

Let's play legal expert.
Judge Silver will express her sympathy with the plaintiff's grievance and her strong frustration at being constrained by the law, the RLA and the 9th Circuit's previous ruling and interpretation. However, the only consolation she can offer to the west class is a seat with representation at the M/B table. She will also offer her Informal interpretation of how the concept of LUP must be balanced against the concept of WRR (wide range of reasonableness) and again conclude that the union did not act outside the bounds of WRR. She will rule that neither MOU para4 nor para10h meet the plaintiff's definition of a Trojan Horse and that both provisions, particularly 10h were adequately vetted.
Finally, the MOU, although a contract, is not the JCBA which will be pursued in accordance with the existing timeline following the effective date.
Court order - a 3way, no Nic and a SLI to be determined by M/B.
'84

I think the bar to establish independent representation for the West class requires too many contortions, assumptions, and prejudices against the law, against the defendant, and against the parties to the MOU...... I will find it remarkable if she digs deep enough to actually sign her name to that...

... From a selfish perspective, if she does, many of us will love to keep our pay raise and our DOH while the 9th (or the system board) sorts out her meddling.

P.S. I'm considering starting an LLC to lobby Silver for such a result. (Full disclosure, an LLC is a for profit corporation).

 

[Res Judicata]

That doesn't appear entirely unlikely from what we've seen so far, but would certainly open up a sizeable can of worms. It seems to me that a west seat would essentially construct an additional bargaining agent within an existing union, which by definition, is already the legally established bargaining agent. I'd imagine such an action to be easily subject to appeal. Oh well. We'll have to wait and see how it all plays out.
 
On the good side; with compensation set to rise to semi-respectable levels regardless...there's no real harm I can see to waiting out whatever legal proceedings that are needed to eventually finish this mess.

MB is NOT.....I repeat....NOT "collective bargaining". The fake union has NO BUSINESS attempting to represent the interest of a group they so obviously have no desire to aid in any way shape or form. The only desire of the fake union is to force the West to compensate the East for their horrible career choices. Not happening.

 

[nycbusdriver]

There is a pattern of shady, I'm above the law mentality. I've seen it in court, a jury saw it and found USAPA guilty of a DFR. Your reps were dishonest and misleading to our pilots at the road shows. I can go on and on. Let's see how Judge Silver sees it.

Why don't you back up with statistics your side's rookie comments about our pilot group? All I have to do is point at the score, much like the Cowboys, NY Giants game last night.

Dare to compare safety records?

PS. Don't drag your tail while you do that search. Max pitch up 7.5 degrees.

 
I see we've given up on the Spartans and Dire Wolves, and now into the sports analogies.  Yes...whatever two professional football teams did last night (I have no idea, and could not care less) is certainly apt to the argument you are making about two pilots groups. 
 
EastUS1 is right....we just can't make this stuff up.  Every time we think we have you westicles figured out, you make something else up that's INCREDIBLY stupid.  

 

[nycbusdriver]

Let's play legal expert.

Judge Silver will express her sympathy with the plaintiff's grievance and her strong frustration at being constrained by the law, the RLA and the 9th Circuit's previous ruling and interpretation. However, the only consolation she can offer to the west class is a seat with representation at the M/B table. She will also offer her Informal interpretation of how the concept of LUP must be balanced against the concept of WRR (wide range of reasonableness) and again conclude that the union did not act outside the bounds of WRR. She will rule that neither MOU para4 nor para10h meet the plaintiff's definition of a Trojan Horse and that both provisions, particularly 10h were adequately vetted.
Finally, the MOU, although a contract, is not the JCBA which will be pursued in accordance with the existing timeline following the effective date.

Court order - a 3way, no Nic and a SLI to be determined by M/B.

'84

 
I disagree.  Assuming Judge Silver follows the law, i.e. the RLA, McC-B, and contract law, there is no basis at all for a "west seat" at the SLI table with the APA.  McC-B requires the CBAs to work it out, and the only CBA (per the RLA) for the USAirways pilots is USAPA.  Silver may want the west to have a seat (and I personally think it might be a good idea), but she will follow the applicable laws or be overturned on appeal if she doesn't.  The west group is already legally and exclusively represented for collective bargaining issues, and the McC-B recognizes that, and nothing else.

 

[nycbusdriver]

MB is NOT.....I repeat....NOT "collective bargaining". The fake union has NO BUSINESS attempting to represent the interest of a group they so obviously have no desire to aid in any way shape or form. The only desire of the fake union is to force the West to compensate the East for their horrible career choices. Not happening.

 
Too bad McC-B doesn't recognize the Dire Wolves Club of the Great Sandbox.  You can have a seat at the table...the children's table in the Cry Room.

 

[Phoenix]

 
I disagree.  Assuming Judge Silver follows the law, i.e. the RLA, McC-B, and contract law, there is no basis at all for a "west seat" at the SLI table with the APA.  McC-B requires the CBAs to work it out, and the only CBA (per the RLA) for the USAirways pilots is USAPA.  Silver may want the west to have a seat (and I personally think it might be a good idea), but she will follow the applicable laws or be overturned on appeal if she doesn't.  The west group is already legally and exclusively represented for collective bargaining issues, and the McC-B recognizes that, and nothing else.

So.. You predict, "Not guilty of DFR, all plaintiff and company motions denied." ?  
 
That would have two things going for it... it would be according to the law, and it would be expedient for the merger.