Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[767one]

 
Does that mean I NEVER, NEVER get to cash my retro paycheck?

If it is direct deposited you don't have to cash it but if you get a check from the company turn it into cash as soon as possible and don't count on anything in any MOU, or contract that the company signs.

 

[Black Swan]

Last week the Company proposed a meeting on December 20 with themselves, USAPA, APA, and the Addington II plaintiffs. As you know, the Company, USAPA, and APA are the only parties to the MOU. The plaintiffs in the Addington II litigation are not. A meeting between the Company and the Addington II plaintiffs concerning seniority would be a violation of a number of sections of the MOU as well as the Railway Labor Act. Additionally, the Company has never indicated the intended subject matter of the proposed meeting.
The USAPA Merger Committee will not be attending the meeting, or any other meeting that includes parties other than the exclusive bargaining agents of the two pilot groups and the Company, unless and until there is a requirement from the courts. Our counsel has stated this position to the Company, including the fact that such a meeting would violate USAPA’s status as the certified bargaining representative of all US Airways Pilots.

Excellent. Total violation of RLA. There is no subset representation breakout permitted of those already represented by a legally elected union. Siegle and Doug Parker both slept through labor relations class, obviously.

 

[767one]

Not "she."  "It."
 
RR

I wonder if she was one of the two female pilots that stayed in the gate area facing our 75 at PHX giving us the stink eye for 45 min. shortly after alpo was sent packing? Very unfriendly those two...even though we were waving at them they wouln't wave back.....not even the American good luck sign!

 

[Black Swan]

GFY scab. Your fake union is flaps up, on fire, and with two blown tires at V1.
Your billion dollar pile of Schitt that has robbed the entire group out of a third of their working lives is doomed. Well done scab.

And your makeshift half a$$ed excuse for a lawyer just attempted another crack at an unripe case. Then he sucked down some more Leonidas cash on a lost cause trip to DC. I guarantee the sun goes down today, and you get your " seat" yanked away from you. Even Doug Parker knows he can't do that one.

 

[snapthis]

The American/US Airways Merger: The View from 35,000 Feet


More articles by Ken McQuillan »
By: Ken McQuillan
December 20, 2013

Tags: American Airlines, bizin, exclusive, merger, spotlight, US Airways



(Photo: Getty Images)

Now that the merger between American Airlines and US Airways has closed, we’ll take a look at how this newly formed mega-carrier will operate, specifically, from the pilot’s point of view.
 
Mergers in the airline industry are certainly not a new concept. In reality, it’s tough to find a current airline employee who hasn’t experienced at least one merger first-hand, and many have been through multiple mergers.  What is new this time around is the sense that this merger between American and US Airways is being received by most involved with open arms, or at least an open mind, which, given the combined history of the airlines involved, says a lot.
The American Airlines and US Airways that existed prior to this week’s merger were both products of previous mergers, so the optimism regarding the New American Airlines cannot be fully appreciated until we understand the past.

 West meets East​

 Without a doubt, the largest collective sigh of relief this week came from the middle of the desert southwest.  Phoenix to be exact.  This is where the former America West pilots have been dug-in for more than eight years, battling it out with pilots and their union from the former US Airways, in an effort to enforce an arbitrator’s ruling regarding the one thing that some pilots have compared to Superman’s Kryptonite: Seniority.

Although America West and US Airways merged in 2005, pilot groups from both airlines still maintain a split personality.

Seniority is everything to an airline pilot.  It determines when a pilot will fly, how often, what routes, which equipment, and how much they will be paid.  Seniority also determines which seat they will occupy in the cockpit, and how long they will have to wait to move into the left seat.
In 2005, a financially solvent America West Airlines bought US Airways out of bankruptcy, creating one larger airline that kept the US Airways name.  At the time of the merger, the pilots from each airline were represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, known as ALPA.  The America West pilots felt that because their airline rescued US Airways, the “West” pilots should at least get a fair blending in the seniority list with the “East” pilots.  However, the East pilots saw things a bit differently, and thought that seniority should be determined by date of hire, which would have benefitted the East pilots more than the West because of the fact that US Airways is the older carrier, and thus many of its pilots have earlier hire dates.
The seniority battle between the East and West pilots went to arbitration, and in 2007, a blended seniority list was created, called the Nicolau Award, named for its creator, George Nicolau.  This new binding seniority list didn’t sit well with the East pilots, as it placed some West pilots with later hire dates, but more longevity (actual time on the job, as opposed to being furloughed), ahead of some East pilots, many of whom had earlier hire dates than West pilots, but were furloughed at the time of the merger.  The West pilots accepted the Nicolau list, however, it wasn’t considered an all-out victory because of the fact that the East pilots were awarded the top 517 slots on the list, and the most senior West pilot was at number 518.
 
The US Airways pilot group was twice the size of the America West pilot group at the time of the merger, so subsequently, and some would say illegally, the East pilots never adopted the Nicolau Award, and voted out ALPA as their union, and formed a new union.  The US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA) became the bargaining group that purportedly would represent all of the combined pilots, much to the chagrin of former America West pilots, who felt that USAPA would not fairly represent them.
 

 
Full Article: http://www.nycaviation.com/2013/12/americanus-airways-merger-view-35000-feet/#.UrSQ-5FItFw

 

[Black Swan]

Relax. AOL is meeting with all the parties today and moving fwd with the sli with the APA. You insolent children are holding your breath demanding your way...entirely ignored. I wonder what is being discussed outside of you scabs presence? HHAA!!!!

So what AOL is meeting. They have absolutely no standing under the RLA. None.
When Parker realizes he is fomenting more labor issues than the analysts care for, he will show you the door very quickly. There is no way AOL is going to tank the stock.

 

[Pi brat]

Really? I doubt that very much. Scab=Coward. PI brat=scab...you do the math.

I tell you what loudmouth, you let me know when you are passing through CLT and we will put it to a test. Deal?

 

[Res Judicata]

So what AOL is meeting. They have absolutely no standing under the RLA. None.
When Parker realizes he is fomenting more labor issues than the analysts care for, he will show you the door very quickly. There is no way AOL is going to tank the stock.

He's going to show you the Nic before he shows the west the door.

 

[Beancounter]

Res,
Would be simply a win / win scenario in any imagined outcome for myself.
Guess it would depend on sanity of participants.
Plan on flying domestically starting in 1st quarter so I might get said opportunity.
Could you give us cowards on the East a covert idea to display on our possessions so you would know who to approach with your smackdown ?
FA

You'll have to forgive me if I make eye contact, smile and nod, instead of glaring and making a rude comment. If you say, "hi," I'm afraid I'll have to say, "hi," back. 🙂

Didn't everyone have politeness and manners drilled into them at a young age? I still eat with a napkin on my lap and feel guilty when I put my elbows on the table. Must be a generational thing 🙂

Bean

 

[Beancounter]

The American/US Airways Merger: The View from 35,000 Feet


More articles by Ken McQuillan »
By: Ken McQuillan
December 20, 2013

Tags: American Airlines, bizin, exclusive, merger, spotlight, US Airways



(Photo: Getty Images)

Now that the merger between American Airlines and US Airways has closed, we’ll take a look at how this newly formed mega-carrier will operate, specifically, from the pilot’s point of view.
 
Mergers in the airline industry are certainly not a new concept. In reality, it’s tough to find a current airline employee who hasn’t experienced at least one merger first-hand, and many have been through multiple mergers.  What is new this time around is the sense that this merger between American and US Airways is being received by most involved with open arms, or at least an open mind, which, given the combined history of the airlines involved, says a lot.
The American Airlines and US Airways that existed prior to this week’s merger were both products of previous mergers, so the optimism regarding the New American Airlines cannot be fully appreciated until we understand the past.

 West meets East​

 Without a doubt, the largest collective sigh of relief this week came from the middle of the desert southwest.  Phoenix to be exact.  This is where the former America West pilots have been dug-in for more than eight years, battling it out with pilots and their union from the former US Airways, in an effort to enforce an arbitrator’s ruling regarding the one thing that some pilots have compared to Superman’s Kryptonite: Seniority.

Although America West and US Airways merged in 2005, pilot groups from both airlines still maintain a split personality.

Seniority is everything to an airline pilot.  It determines when a pilot will fly, how often, what routes, which equipment, and how much they will be paid.  Seniority also determines which seat they will occupy in the cockpit, and how long they will have to wait to move into the left seat.
In 2005, a financially solvent America West Airlines bought US Airways out of bankruptcy, creating one larger airline that kept the US Airways name.  At the time of the merger, the pilots from each airline were represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, known as ALPA.  The America West pilots felt that because their airline rescued US Airways, the “West” pilots should at least get a fair blending in the seniority list with the “East” pilots.  However, the East pilots saw things a bit differently, and thought that seniority should be determined by date of hire, which would have benefitted the East pilots more than the West because of the fact that US Airways is the older carrier, and thus many of its pilots have earlier hire dates.
The seniority battle between the East and West pilots went to arbitration, and in 2007, a blended seniority list was created, called the Nicolau Award, named for its creator, George Nicolau.  This new binding seniority list didn’t sit well with the East pilots, as it placed some West pilots with later hire dates, but more longevity (actual time on the job, as opposed to being furloughed), ahead of some East pilots, many of whom had earlier hire dates than West pilots, but were furloughed at the time of the merger.  The West pilots accepted the Nicolau list, however, it wasn’t considered an all-out victory because of the fact that the East pilots were awarded the top 517 slots on the list, and the most senior West pilot was at number 518.
 
The US Airways pilot group was twice the size of the America West pilot group at the time of the merger, so subsequently, and some would say illegally, the East pilots never adopted the Nicolau Award, and voted out ALPA as their union, and formed a new union.  The US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA) became the bargaining group that purportedly would represent all of the combined pilots, much to the chagrin of former America West pilots, who felt that USAPA would not fairly represent them.
 

 
Full Article: http://www.nycaviation.com/2013/12/americanus-airways-merger-view-35000-feet/#.UrSQ-5FItFw

I'd say it sums up the cluster we got into pretty well.

Bean

 

[end_of_alpa]

The only ones who say it isn't ripe are you scabs...you know, the idiots that refused to meet today. HA! The APA and AOL are going to have a field day with USCABA. You'd know that had you shown up today. You people are utterly incapable of rational behavior. AOL and the West reps are masters at playing you fools.

West sick bank must be exhausting.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Why do pilots think they're better then pilots?  Look here, the Flight Attendants are much better than pilots:
 
"Summary of Agreements on Seniority, Bargaining & Representation

AFA/APFA SENIORITY INTEGRATION PROTOCOL

• AFA and APFA will utilize the “Occupational Seniority Date” at American and the Seniority Integration Date, commonly referred to as date-of-hire, at US Airways.
• A 40 day adjustment will be made for American Flight Attendants, representing the average amount of time for initial training, to coincide with the historical seniority start date at the beginning of training for US Airways Flight Attendants.
• No system flush or displacements as a result of merging of seniority lists.
• Agreement is separate from bargaining and representation. The seniority process is not contingent on any other agreement."

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2013/12/two-flight-attendant-unions-at-new-american-airlines-reach-accord.html/
 
Flight attendants have learned their lesson at American.  No M/B for them.  APA pilots are still in the cave man period.  AWA are scabs and do what is best for them.

 

[Res Judicata]

Res is just like the rest of the Westicles.  Big mouths, little dicks, lots of cactus pricks and big watches.

Better than a grey mustache, 3 stripes, perma-scowl and a Wal-mart Casio...accompanied with the ever present stench of failure and regret.

 

[Pi brat]

Have you heard any updates? I'm out of the loop.

Bean

Come on Bean! You are asking HIM for an update? This his best work:
 

  Res Judicata

 
Nov 14, 2011

The Dec. ruling should be out by April. LOA93 Loss will have been handed down to USAPA and that reality will have had a few months to percolate among the silent majority. I, and others a hell of a lot smarter than I, believe that Judge Silver is going to effectively end this debate by telling the company that they are absolutely liable if they touch the Nic. The law is clear. It is illegal for the company to enjoy the benefits of a new contract that work as a DFR against a group of employees. All AOL has to do is persuade the Judge enough that a DOH contract is indeed a dfr and will make the contract Illegal. Guess where all the evidence for proving that fact will be imported from? Wait for it.......

[SIZE=16pt]ADDINGTON!!! [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]The case that was dead, buried, meaningless, and forgotten will be back front and center to haunt USAPA. Being a Jury already found against USAPA for DFR in regards to a DOH list....how hard is it going to be to convince Silver that a DOH contract is a DFR?

It's a no brainer. USAPA is doomed and they damn well know it. Thank God they finally are getting competent legal advise.

This will be over by April. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]Res Judicata...a thing already decided. [/SIZE]

 

[end_of_alpa]

Better than a grey mustache, 3 stripes, perma-scowl and a Wal-mart Casio...accompanied with the ever present stench of failure and regret.

Four stripes, prick.  Something you'll never have, scab.  Oh, how is that weight loss thing working out for you.  Your show:  BIGGEST LOSER.  
 
That's funny right there!