Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[end_of_alpa]

Have you heard any updates? I'm out of the loop.

Bean

Ask your buddy, Res!

 

[Beancounter]

Come on Bean! You are asking HIM for an update? This his best work:
 

  Res Judicata

 
Nov 14, 2011

The Dec. ruling should be out by April. LOA93 Loss will have been handed down to USAPA and that reality will have had a few months to percolate among the silent majority. I, and others a hell of a lot smarter than I, believe that Judge Silver is going to effectively end this debate by telling the company that they are absolutely liable if they touch the Nic. The law is clear. It is illegal for the company to enjoy the benefits of a new contract that work as a DFR against a group of employees. All AOL has to do is persuade the Judge enough that a DOH contract is indeed a dfr and will make the contract Illegal. Guess where all the evidence for proving that fact will be imported from? Wait for it.......ADDINGTON!!! The case that was dead, buried, meaningless, and forgotten will be back front and center to haunt USAPA. Being a Jury already found against USAPA for DFR in regards to a DOH list....how hard is it going to be to convince Silver that a DOH contract is a DFR?
It's a no brainer. USAPA is doomed and they damn well know it. Thank God they finally are getting competent legal advise.
This will be over by April.
 
Res Judicata...a thing already decided.

Since you ie USAPA chose not to attend I figured asking you would be moot.

Bean

 

[snapthis]

Since you ie USAPA chose not to attend I figured asking you would be moot.

Bean

Since the East pilots had no reps, maybe they have grounds for a DFR?  

 

[Pi brat]

Since you ie USAPA chose not to attend I figured asking you would be moot.

Bean

You have reps in PHX that are members of USAPA and AOL. They would be the place to go, not a brain dead poster like Res.

 

[Beancounter]

Oh that's classic. I post something that is simply fact, USAPA chose not to attend and I get a negative point. Somebody around here has an adversity to reality.

Bean

 

[fatherabraham]

You'll have to forgive me if I make eye contact, smile and nod, instead of glaring and making a rude comment. If you say, "hi," I'm afraid I'll have to say, "hi," back. 🙂
Didn't everyone have politeness and manners drilled into them at a young age? I still eat with a napkin on my lap and feel guilty when I put my elbows on the table. Must be a generational thing 🙂
Bean

Bean,

Agree with all above. Not a clue why you directed at me.
Res & Nic need above reminders and I believe they are in your camp.
Good luck with correcting their threats & slander.
Please admonish them for all to see so on this board.
Then run for cover quick !

FA

 

[Mach85ER]

 

Why do pilots think they're better then pilots?  Look here, the Flight Attendants are much better than pilots:
 
"Summary of Agreements on Seniority, Bargaining & Representation
AFA/APFA SENIORITY INTEGRATION PROTOCOL

• AFA and APFA will utilize the “Occupational Seniority Date” at American and the Seniority Integration Date, commonly referred to as date-of-hire, at US Airways.
• A 40 day adjustment will be made for American Flight Attendants, representing the average amount of time for initial training, to coincide with the historical seniority start date at the beginning of training for US Airways Flight Attendants.
• No system flush or displacements as a result of merging of seniority lists.
• Agreement is separate from bargaining and representation. The seniority process is not contingent on any other agreement."

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2013/12/two-flight-attendant-unions-at-new-american-airlines-reach-accord.html/
 
Flight attendants have learned their lesson at American.  No M/B for them.  APA pilots are still in the cave man period.  AWA are scabs and do what is best for them.

From the APA bleachers, not really following you. FA's don't have differences in aircraft size like us. Easier omelette to scramble.

Bottom lineholder Captain on the 767 is a late 1990 hire, 1991 hires are 767 Inernational Captains. I have my caveman views, what are your views on the subject. The number of widebody jobs is pretty staggering compared to AWA and US. DOH obviously would change things, alot. Cooking some wooly mammoth ride now, reply at your leisure.

Thx new bruthas

 

[Black Swan]

From the APA bleachers, not really following you. FA's don't have differences in aircraft size like us. Easier omelette to scramble.Bottom lineholder Captain on the 767 is a late 1990 hire, 1991 hires are 767 Inernational Captains. I have my caveman views, what are your views on the subject. The number of widebody jobs is pretty staggering compared to AWA and US. DOH obviously would change things, alot. Cooking some wooly mammoth ride now, reply at your leisure.Thx new bruthas

Yes, and your wide body flying should stay with your guys with good fences. I have no problem with that.

 

[end_of_alpa]

From the APA bleachers, not really following you. FA's don't have differences in aircraft size like us. Easier omelette to scramble.Bottom lineholder Captain on the 767 is a late 1990 hire, 1991 hires are 767 Inernational Captains. I have my caveman views, what are your views on the subject. The number of widebody jobs is pretty staggering compared to AWA and US. DOH obviously would change things, alot. Cooking some wooly mammoth ride now, reply at your leisure.Thx new bruthas

I have type ratings on all your aircraft except one. I have caveman views as well. It's called time. Your time is no more nor no less valuable than mine, contrary to ALPA/APA beliefs. FA's don't care about size. Why should we? Your president said it best that new hire pilots under the new regs should be Captain qualified. Why treat them any differently?

 

[Phoenix]

I have type ratings on all your aircraft except one. I have caveman views as well. It's called time. Your time is no more nor no less valuable than mine, contrary to ALPA/APA beliefs. FA's don't care about size. Why should we? Your president said it best that new hire pilots under the new regs should be Captain qualified. Why treat them any differently?

 
 
Pay for type is one more way to divide the pilot group, but "we have always done it that way."   Its the proverbial carrot so there can be a stick.  If ALAP had developed a national agreement of pay based on longevity seniority would still be very helpful for QOL, and I suppose pilots would still ***** about something, or lose their identity.  
 
Never mind.    

 

[Claxon]

Come on Bean! You are asking HIM for an update? This his best work:
 

  Res Judicata

 
Nov 14, 2011

The Dec. ruling should be out by April. LOA93 Loss will have been handed down to USAPA and that reality will have had a few months to percolate among the silent majority. I, and others a hell of a lot smarter than I, believe that Judge Silver is going to effectively end this debate by telling the company that they are absolutely liable if they touch the Nic. The law is clear. It is illegal for the company to enjoy the benefits of a new contract that work as a DFR against a group of employees. All AOL has to do is persuade the Judge enough that a DOH contract is indeed a dfr and will make the contract Illegal. Guess where all the evidence for proving that fact will be imported from? Wait for it.......ADDINGTON!!! The case that was dead, buried, meaningless, and forgotten will be back front and center to haunt USAPA. Being a Jury already found against USAPA for DFR in regards to a DOH list....how hard is it going to be to convince Silver that a DOH contract is a DFR?
It's a no brainer. USAPA is doomed and they damn well know it. Thank God they finally are getting competent legal advise.
This will be over by April.
 
Res Judicata...a thing already decided.

Res Judicata- a thing already misguided.
Speaking of misguided, another Spartan Lawyer Mark C Doyal went off on a bender with his polygraph statement to the FBI. Quite a tall tale. He was also named a perp for interfering with a legally elected bargaining agent.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Mach85ER

My view is that we should avoid arbitration, install good fences around existing widebody aircraft, find a reasonable formula for sharing in future widebodies and above all avoid arbitration.

Other than that I think we should avoid arbitration.

'84

 

[Claxon]

Better than a grey mustache, 3 stripes, perma-scowl and a Wal-mart Casio...accompanied with the ever present stench of failure and regret.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the original US Airways pilots.

You have looked in to the eyes of men with quiet dignity,  it is obviously the foreign territory of your normal daily activities since your hire date of 2003.
 

 

[nycbusdriver]

I'd say it sums up the cluster we got into pretty well.

Bean

 
It's not too bad an effort for an outsider.  Still a few misconceptions, though.

 

[Phoenix]

Mach85ER

My view is that we should avoid arbitration, install good fences around existing widebody aircraft, find a reasonable formula for sharing in future widebodies and above all avoid arbitration.

Other than that I think we should avoid arbitration.

'84

 
There is little to argue against APA having the best career expectations, ergo they have the most to risk by handing it off to an arbitration panel.  Crandall advised them against arbitration.  Even so, Silver will grant AOL status.  AOL, the company, and APA agree on a Protocol, the president "Praters" the agreement before departing, then the waves roar, mountains fall, and cats and dogs start sleeping together.... after all that, arbitration.  😀